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Smoking weed can make you kill Jews, it turns out.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Mouthwash, Dec 4, 2019.

  1. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    I'm hardly suggesting that the decision the courts eventually hand down should be immune from criticism, but you seem to have decided that the outcome is bad when the outcome hasn't actually happened yet...
     
  2. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    What's happened so far is already scandalous.
     
  3. Synsensa

    Synsensa - Retired Moderator

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    Is forced long-term psychiatric institutionalization considered a minor suffering here?
     
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  4. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Psychosis from Cannabis is a real thing, think of it like a peanut allergy. You can't imagine being allergic to peanuts, but there is a confluence of factors that makes it dangerous to somebody.

    Also, not pressing criminal charges against someone in a psychotic break is a pretty standard thing in the modern society, thank goodness.

    We have serial underinvestment in mental health, especially the truly debilitating ones. Most people cannot even name a charity that researches such things
     
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  5. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    Nothing has been decided yet, its premature to conclude the French legal system has failed yet.
    I agree the police seemed pretty hopeless in this case though.
     
  6. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Criminalizing marijuana does very little to help keep people safe, because the type of people who are rendered psychotic by marijuana are not very likely to be prevented from smoking marijuana by the law

    In essence, it doesn't help. Except maybe the small fraction of people who are prevented from smoking marijuana due to its criminalization, and who are also at risk of psychotic break. It's a bit like the gun argument, where a lot of normal people are inconvenienced while not really preventing much harm.

    Probably the best way to help reduce psychosis from marijuana is to have conversations about it, so that people know that it is possible, and look for the signs. Additionally, research to help those that are susceptible would go a long way to reducing their proclivity to consume it
     
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  7. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    Just so you're aware, that article's title was sarcastic.
     
  8. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    If that was true there would be no Jews in NZ.
     
  9. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Sure. My broader point is that marijuana psychosis is real, and we want to reduce psychotic killings. One necessary path is actually funding the underlying research, which we don't really.
     
  10. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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  11. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Yeah dropping an intent-based charge you think won't succeed, and pursuing involuntary psychiatric confinement, is not "being let off" nor is it a particularly surprising or uncommon deployment of prosecutorial discretion. This is silly.
     
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  12. Dekker

    Dekker Prince

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    I think the OPs point is that anti-Semitism is so ingrained in a lot of people that stuff like this results when they lose a semblance of control. He attacked her and was scared because his subconscious was already phobic to Jews. Same with anyone who in polite society is, er, politically correct, but goes all Mel Gibson, under the influence, with the influence not actually influencing anything but removing normal inhibitions to say and act what one believes. So I also hope OP brought up Philando Castille sincerely and supports the message of black lives matters and recognizes that many police shootings are tainted with a racial bias and the same underlying fear that already exists ingrained in many of these officers about black people.
    I hope your point is that hate crimes happen and that should not be minimized. And is not seriously saying weed should be banned because it causes it.
     
  13. xwyhzol

    xwyhzol Chieftain

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    It's likely less weed related and more social/civilized discomfort related.
     
  14. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    The question is why an intent-based charge wouldn't succeed. I keep comparing it to treatment of black people in the US, but I think a murder like this of one would be an easy hate crime.
     
  15. Commodore

    Commodore Technology of Peace

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    This isn't the 19th century though so being locked up in an institution isn't exactly a punishment anymore. Hell it could even be seen as a vacation with the only real freedom one loses is their freedom of movement. Not being able to leave the place that houses you, feeds you, and provides therapy and medical care for you, all at the tax payers expense, is a pretty light punishment for brutally murdering another human being.

    Now if this were any time before, say, 1930 then you might make the case that sending him to an institution is the proper punishment for his crime since institutions were essentially just torture houses back then.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  16. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    I like that we got to a literal Godwin by post #9.
     
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  17. xwyhzol

    xwyhzol Chieftain

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    Seems like the 'Avatar' film, but where evil tyranny won.
     
  18. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Your own opening post explained this:

    If established medical opinion and prosecutors both think it's gonna be iffy, that's a pretty good sign that it's gonna be iffy. Without being privy to the details of the reports, to any particular psychiatric expertise, or to any particular understanding of the French criminal code, that's all there is to go on - both sets of experts thought this was gonna be very iffy to prosecute as murder.

    Now, prosecutors aren't generally in the business of not pursuing murder cases if they think they have a decent case, so one would think their decision here to go for medical confinement is a fairly carefully considered one based on the evidence and law.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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  19. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    Godwin's been cancelled for around half a decade now.

    You seem to be under the impression that the business of psychiatrists and lawyers is to establish something resembling the truth (and could not be more wrong). You're correct that prosecutors should be at least incentivized to make harsher claims, but this is a high-profile political case. In a country like France, I suspect that avoiding political backlash is a bigger incentive.
     
  20. Manfred Belheim

    Manfred Belheim Mansplaining Fool

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    Don't you routinely think that you are in a better position to determine justice than the US judicial system?
     

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