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Smoking weed can make you kill Jews, it turns out.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Mouthwash, Dec 4, 2019.

  1. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Your callousness and lack of experience is showing. Mental health institutions are not going to approximate a vacation for any serious offender.

    They are terrible places, and there is a strong psychological reason why inpatients almost never get visitors. Again, we deliberately underfund this aspect of society.

    I worked in it for years, and now that I work elsewhere I devote a portion of my paycheck to funding the research. We are nowhere near where we want to be when it comes to treating serious mental health issues
     
  2. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Nope
     
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  3. Arwon

    Arwon

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    ... what do you think a prison is
     
  4. MaryKB

    MaryKB Deity Supporter

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    To me it sounds like he'd like to see people locked up in the Bastille with iron masks ...
     
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  5. Bamspeedy

    Bamspeedy We'll dig up the road!

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    A vacation was an exaggeration, but is a mental health institution (today, not 100 years ago) preferable to a standard prison?

    Is there an incentive to fake a mental illness to plead guilty by reason of mental illness to go to a mental instiution rather than a normal prison, or is this Hollywood nonsense that doesn't reflect reality? (I say fake an illness, as obviously a real illness does have an incentive...to get treated)

    (Not saying the guy in this case was faking mental illness, just disputing what is worse=prison vs. Insane asylum)

     
  6. Commodore

    Commodore Technology of Peace

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    Worse than a mental institute. Last I heard, mental patients have a significantly lower chance of getting assaulted, murdered, or forced to join a gang to survive while confined within the institution.

    Nah, I just think prisons should be intentionally made to be horrible places and to make those horrible conditions common knowledge to make people not want to do things that will get them sent to such a horrible place.

    I've also made it known before that I'm not particularly concerned about how criminals are treated, especially those convicted of violent crimes. They obviously didn't care about violating the rights and dignity of their victims, so why should society care about violating theirs in return? I am of the belief that once a person makes the decision to violate the rights of others, they should lose any claim they have to exercise their own rights.
     
  7. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    States that make prisons 'horrible places' have both worse corruption and worse recidivism. Everyone knows that prisons have a place, but the theory has been tested. Ignoring the data means that you implicitly prefer higher recidivism in order to punish. It's bad math.

    But no, mental institutions are not nice places. Claiming or implying they are is part of the problem. More recidivism and more mistreated schizophrenics are the opposite of progress
     
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  8. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Yes there is, because it's the accused who decides to roll the dice. But 99.9% of the time, the person who thinks they have that incentive is not fully informed. It's some low-foresight individual. So, they more think they have the incentive

    Now, in the US, you get to buy your doctors. And mental health is deliberately underfunded. So maybe there's an intersection where someone truly wealthy can then leverage this (intentional) murkiness to zoom in and out of an institution.

    But no one here would agree to being treated in a forensic ward. Serially experimented upon with medications and surrounded by incoherent people and a random assortment of staff. A panel of doctors determining under what state of medication you have to be in. No one being able to codify to you your release conditions

    Some people don't trust the forensic psychiatrists to properly detect mental illness and thus allow 'skating'. So they prefer a system where sick people are more likely to be jailed than treated. And they prefer that jails be terrible. It's not an iteratively improving situation. It's why I provide a solution to the conundrum (choosing to fund the research)
     
  9. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    A lot of these comments echo the sentiment that people in prison deserve to be raped and beaten by other inmates or guards. Being cut off from society and locked in a cage is punishment enough, we don't have to be OK with encouraging or even just passively accepting additional violence and cruelty inflicted on convicts. I also don't know where this perception that facilities for the criminally insane are easy. Maybe because they aren't associated with Bubba rape in popular culture that makes them seem 'soft' or something. I had a friend who was a nurse at a facility for the mentally ill and he told me it was horrible and he would choose prison over the mentally ill facility if he ever had to. Obviously that's an anecdote but it's the same sort of anecdote that people who work at these facilities inevitably share, pointing toward it being true.

    The wealthy are generally able to bargain for much better prison conditions overall. They frequently are able to avoid going to the maximum security facilities and secure things like work release and day passes. And that is if they get so far as being convicted and sentenced in the first place - they are largely able to extricate themselves from charges before that point.
     
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  10. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    If rape in prison is desirable, then why not just full-out admit it? Lobby for it to be added as an employment perk for guards or something.

    Like, why should prisoners get all the perks of being allowed to rape weaker prisoners?

    Or, maybe, the position isn't actually sound ...
     
  11. xwyhzol

    xwyhzol Chieftain

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    I prefer (an updated version of) an eye for an eye, rather than 'socially accepted disgusting prisons'.

    If we intentionally made prisons horrifying, then people don't receive a reasonable sentence. Further, if we made mental institutions horrifying, they cannot be considered hospitality.

    Seems like a quick bodge Job at modern law...

    Eye for an eye, is law made accurately.

    If you aid in the corruption of society, by being a lawless pervert and spreading nonsense like 'mental hospitals should be disgusting' and 'all criminals have mental problems', as you're so blissfully unaware of the mass pain you help to cause, you get tortured and a degraded vessel in the next life - such as a fly.

    Don't worry, your mind-set is unoriginal.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  12. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

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    Well, now you're into employment incentives that people start wars to get.
     
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  13. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    Nah, the (accidental?) creator of Godwin's law semi-recently said that you can absolutely call certain types of people Nazis (by semi-recently, probably a couple of years back now), but so far as measuring a red herring in a forum thread goes, it has its uses.

    But nevermind all that, I just said I liked the fact it was that quick to surface. With a stereotypical Hitler comparison too.

    I mean, they are different judicial systems.
     
  14. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    The problem here is that you assume that rights exist (or even more dubiously, that making them an ironclad social boundary is possible or humane. Criminals don't assume they'll get caught).
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  15. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Right but we're taking about France which is a normal country which presumably has normal prisons with medical care and proper resourcing, not corrupt underfunded torture chambers or tools for preventing people with the wrong colour skin from voting.

    (That said: they do get a lot of criticism from European Union bodies for overcrowding and poor mental health treatment relative to other EU countries so maybe they're more to punishment freaks' tastes than we'd expect)
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  16. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    So is this like a Gell-Mann amnesia effect for members of the Anglosphere or what?
     
  17. Patine

    Patine Deity

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    Perhaps the marijuana wasn't actually the contributing factor? That would seem to be the most intelligent assumption. But, then again, intelligence, reason, logic, analytical and empirical thinking, common sense, and grounded pragmatism are practically anathema as thought patterns to both extremes of the political spectrum, nowadays. The once great Western cultural edifice was been melted and dissolved to low-grade mud, as a result.
     
  18. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    I mean imagine actually thinking this
     
  19. Patine

    Patine Deity

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    Do you see it differently?
     
  20. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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