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Snap UK General Election

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Samson, Apr 18, 2017.

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  1. Gigaz

    Gigaz civoholic

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    Even better, enlist the British pensioneers. It's not like they've got something else important to do or like there's an economic damage if one of them collapses.
     
  2. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    No. If you cannot employ enough people for X per hour, pay X+Y per hour and add Y / fruit picked per hour onto the price. As Y / fruit picked per hour is trivial relative to the cost to the consumer it makes very little difference.
     
  3. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Why would you even consider delaying the entry of some of the most qualified potential employees into the workforce, just to fill jobs that require the least qualification AND for which there already are workers available?

    There is no "problem" here, unless you just don't want foreigners to do jobs nobody else wants to do, no matter if it just makes things worse for everyone involved.
     
  4. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    I guess that scenario is for some products, like strawberries, already our immediate future with the rapid development of multilayer cultivation systems having a 3D capacity instead of the current 2D of the strawberrie fields..
    A big warehouse system for transporting "pallets/layers" from one station to the other having optimal temperature, kind of light (LED) and nutrition, as well as automated seeding and picking.
    No insecticides because it is a manless cleanroom.

    here just an example of the many:
    http://www.certhon.com/en/greenhous...th-chambers-the-multilayer-cultivation-system

    "Let me take you down
    'Cause I'm going to Strawberry Fields
    Nothing is real
    And nothing to get hung about
    Strawberry Fields forever"

    no more :(
     
    Mise likes this.
  5. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    The Guardian had a follow-up piece in today's edition, with the tagline "losing strawberry yields forever?", so it's clear which they think they is going to happen.

    Ah. That makes more sense.

    The biggest issue of course is that not even foreigners seem to want these jobs any more.
     
  6. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Not even Romanians!?
     
  7. Mise

    Mise isle of lucy

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    That's really cool.
     
  8. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    Yeah, kinda my point.
    Actually, it is if you are a bit longer-sighted.
    You can't have the whole population working on knowledge-based jobs. It's like looking at payrolls, noticing that management have higher wages, and then reasoning that if everyone was a managed then it would be better for standards of life. Good luck running a company made only of managers.
    Reality is, some people aren't fit for knowledge jobs, and the economy cannot be made entirely of knowledge work.

    Also, your argument is just a plain false dichotomy, and a false dichotomy with a twisted argument on top of that : reducing the amount of fruits grown or using machines wouldn't somehow stop children from going to university, and neither would having them working seasonally to pick fruits, nor having seasonal workers do it. It would just open more seasonal jobs for natives.
     
  9. Mise

    Mise isle of lucy

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    I'm talking about the specific policy of using financial incentives to encourage children to work on fruit picking farms instead of studying at university.
     
  10. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Spinning and spinning in the widening bbc gyre :p
     
  11. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    Ah yeah, on this one I agree it's probably not a good use of resources.
    Not only the money can be more usefully put to work, but it's (once again) switching the burden from companies to the state.
     
  12. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Ahahaha, very funny. Gove "a balloon-animal". Fallon likened to a chimp they sent to be blown to bits in the minefield :rotfl:
     
  13. Manfred Belheim

    Manfred Belheim Mansplaining Fool

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    Last time I checked, children didn't go to university (with the odd exception like Doogie Howser of course)
     
  14. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    It's not unheard of for 17-year-olds to go to university and they're legally still minors.
     
  15. Manfred Belheim

    Manfred Belheim Mansplaining Fool

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    Well it's not unheard of, but it's not the norm. And also I still wouldn't describe them as children.
     
  16. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    I mean clearly the most important thing to focus on here is whether they're children, right? Right???
     
  17. Manfred Belheim

    Manfred Belheim Mansplaining Fool

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    No I think the most important thing to focus on would be our opinions of the unimportance of what other people are focusing on. All sorts of wonderful and deep conversations could come out of that, if only we just believe.
     
  18. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    I'll tell you what's important to focus on:

    Not Mises's use of the word "children".
    Personally I find the idea utterly absurd and think it's hilarious that such ideas are being floated evidently because some people just hate foreigners that much.
     
  19. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    It's even worse. That kind of argument (improvement through education) is also often used as a panacea for unemployment. Ignoring the obvious objection that you raised. And keeping in place the idea that those who hold "higher" diplomas deserve bigger pay, even though there is a limited pool of employment for those in jobs that fit their studies.
    This is bad for all the excess people who fall for getting such diplomas and find no matching jobs, and for all the people who do "lesser" jobs and are constantly discriminated against as it it was "natural" and correct that they should be paid less and regarded as lower in the social scale.
    The way I see it, if there is an abundance if graduates in a given area and a lack of fruit pickers, the fruit pickers even ought to be better regarded... instead we import third-world immigrants to pick fruit with little or no labour rights, and create useless paper-pushing positions to some of the surplus graduates so as to reduce the unemployment rate! And in this way we subsidize the population who trained for occupations with high "social status" and screw the population whose jobs lack that status.
     
  20. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    We really need to start seeing these divisions as socially-constructed, and not the result of any kind of objective analysis of people's contributions to society.
    More generally, the fact is we need plenty of jobs which are considered undesirable. Society doesn't function without janitors, garbage collectors, and so forth. To me it is profoundly wrong for society to say 'we need you to do these jobs but we're not going to pay you enough to make a decent living.'
     
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