snofru space map v9 large nightmare eternity

tramwajg

Warlord
Joined
May 9, 2014
Messages
202
Location
Poland
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/snofrus-space-maps.639529/page-12#post-16197623

playing as Washington America, speed eternity, difficulty nightmare, advanced diplomacy and espionage, reslistic corporations, realistic culture spread, city start with 1 tile, raging barbarians, barbarian world, neanderthal cities, animals stay out (to avoid late game subdued animals in large quantities), divine prophets, start without positive traits, developing leaders, complex traits, size matters, without warning, fight or flight, zone of control, surround and destroy, advanced nukes and routes

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edit: restarting due to mistake with AI settings

turn 0 - bc 200 000 https://i.imgur.com/NSI8qTM.png scouting start area in order to find coastal river tile with caves in vicinity (+5 production, +4 gold, +3 food in total from housing and wonder), 2nd priority natural wonder (~3 production and great person birth rate)

turn 19 - bc 197 000 https://i.imgur.com/gfweHhU.png
sadly best location for city is taken by barbarians (river coastal caves natural wonder), now it's choice either river or natural wonder on starting location, river is a bit more science from commerce (+1 at the beginning, +1 from every worked tile, +1 from every tier of bridge and ~1 from trade route in later game), after thinking I will go near victoria falls for free artist

turn 25 - bc 196 000 https://i.imgur.com/R6mKvb2.png
this tile has very low production and commerce, I am hoping it will be balanced by natural wonder in the future

turn 49 - bc 192 000 https://i.imgur.com/xoYk4M1.png
first finishing prime male, then natural wonder, then prehistoric caves group wonder, now I am unsure if it was good idea to settle here, production is very low. found three clubmen in tribal villages which is very good for early battles, better than one axeman, although three axemen would be the best

turn 114 - bc 182 000 https://i.imgur.com/MlKNnZ6.png
found military captive which I used to speed up wonder, and neanderthal captive which I will upgrade to neanderthal tracker

turn 123 https://i.imgur.com/nI4amBK.png
very nice event

turn 153 https://i.imgur.com/IfIGAEt.png
two storytellers with promotion and build up is enough to reach tier 1 education quickly

turn 431 - bc 133 000 https://i.imgur.com/dfU7BRi.png
after many battles, american culture level in barbarian city exceeded 50%, allowing to convert peacefully, it will be challenging to keep up economy with high maintenance and no income, but reserves of gold should be sufficient

turn 494 - bc 124 000 https://i.imgur.com/adKFNJP.png
used 10 captives to finish lascaux paints

turn 506 - bc 122 000 https://i.imgur.com/z1XdLAX.png
great artist from natural wonder born shortly after finishing paintings, large culture boost, also making great work to possibly take over hattusas city by culture and get 2nd trait, this game I try set philosophical 1 + scientific 1 and doubtful with minimalistic 1 (large maintenance increase, but space for expansion seems limited, probably full capacity of reduced maintenance would not be used after medieval-renaissance, although this might be bad choice aswell), eventually I take negligent 1, probably minimalistic 1 would be too bad for ancient era expansion when economy buildings are weak

turn 863 - bc 67 000 https://i.imgur.com/qhHZRhP.png
tribalism researched, I stay with primitive civic for now to avoid anarchy and to have +10% capture chance, building 3rd city somewhere around hattusas, cultural borders stopped expanding and it didn't convert peacefully

turn 1000 - bc 49 000 https://i.ibb.co/n8zBZrF/1000bc49000.png
slavery, using stored captives to have many settled slaves in city with low great person birth rate (capital will have the highest so I will fill two other cities)

turn 1141 - bc 43 000 https://i.ibb.co/WktKm6K/1141-BC43000.png
got great artist again, will make another great work for 40k culture and almost 3rd trait selection, great work is very nice at the beginning and getting weaker in later game, sedentary lifestyle most likely will be researched before 40 000 bc

turn 1226 - bc 40 000 https://i.ibb.co/Z2NTv6m/1226bc40000.png
sedentary lifestyle, free tech agriculture, next ideograms (library of nineveh), caste system (specialists), heritage (ancient customs building)

edit: after reconsidering I decided to get trade first, for commerce slaves

turn 1902 - bc 14 000 https://i.ibb.co/ByJnxLX/1902bc14033.png
classical lifestyle, economy is currently based on slaves - many captives from barbarian cities captured with units which have many promotions for this purpose, first tech alphabet and literature (trade routes), next everything for economy power (glass blowing, soap and candle making, magic) to balance maintenance costs and keep expanding
 
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tramwajg

Warlord
Joined
May 9, 2014
Messages
202
Location
Poland
turn 2360 - bc 9480 https://i.ibb.co/CvHGjpw/2360bc9480.png
medieval lifestyle, capturing many captives to have more slaves, first tech vassalage and feudalism for better civics (vassal levies smaller chance to capture, but more free specialists and better growth with squatter camps), guilds (agriculture civic), education (universities, also world wonder for -10% maintenance in all cities), banking and parliaments (better gold in all cities), 5th trait negotiator I - preparation for economy based on trade routes
 

tramwajg

Warlord
Joined
May 9, 2014
Messages
202
Location
Poland
turn 2686 - bc 7449 https://i.imgur.com/W1BTR5S.png
renaissance lifestyle, I will try to describe decisions making and add some role play elements:)

turn 2805 - bc 6707 https://i.imgur.com/IxEgA0e.png
difference in science after finishing kerala school of mathematics, relatively +2.8%

turn 2811 - bc 6670 https://i.imgur.com/0tBSk8Y.png
finishing smithsonian institution (free museum in every city) relatively +2.1% more science, compared to ~0.2-0.4% every turn when not finishing any wonder

turn 2823 - bc 6595 https://i.imgur.com/yIxZw6H.png
effect on economy after finishing bureau of farm management (from chemistry tech), almost 3000 more gold per turn due to reduced maintenance in all cities, also reason for not making warehouses beginning from classical/medieval era

turn 2905 - bc 6084 https://i.imgur.com/FTrTAuz.png
liberalism is -5% science in all cities when slavery active, relatively -2.7%, soon it will be time to abandon
https://i.imgur.com/HEpOrxG.png +2000 science after completing national zoo (free zoo in every city)
https://i.imgur.com/Hih1S1K.png approximately +9000 science after completing theory of evolution
national library service was about +1500 science, many cities already had it built
encyclopedia approximately +9500 science (relatively +9%)
if +15% science in all cities gives about +9500, it means that slavery active -30% is -19 000 per turn, the only way to find out result of abandoning is probably to save game and test economy output (also gold, culture and production in cities)

I am leading America civilization, the main goal is to become world's strongest nation with best economy and technology in order to maintain peace and spread idea of democracy all over the world. To make this possible, it's needed to increase taxes paid by everyone (serfdom civic +1 gold from every specialist), while maintaining strong upper-upper class of billionaires by developing capitalist paradise, in which every citizen from lower class will think that capitalism is why they can travel across oceans and have gunpowder weapons in 6900 BC when all other civilizations barely have wheels or sailing techniques allowing to cross small inland seas. This technology is being spread over whole world, native primitive cities of aborigenes and such are captured, and their captives join America as slaves. This society is currently working on heliocentrism technology, our recent geography discoveries have proven that earth is indeed round-flat shape of a cylinder, but many people are still believing that actual shape of the world we live in is spherical, and our sailor's discoveries is actually a deception developed by my government in order to keep peace. They try to suggest that evidence is fabricated, worldwrap created by sailors is actually not the truth and it's just order of my government to make it looking like real, in order to keep specialized slaves in place. The next direction of expansion will be Australia: https://i.imgur.com/QCMYIvA.png

current economy is mostly based on captives, summed up probably about thousands in all cities, although their reserve on map is limited by number of civilizations and barbarian cities on map, decreasing as my civilization develops, probably around assembly line it will be better idea to abandon slavery worldview. Efficiency is limited by capacity of transport ships and main units (several horsemen with 5 movement points and many promotions for capture chance, still not enough to have 100% guarantee), pacifist civic would help but on the other hand +4 nobles - 3 directly from civic and 4th from grand estate - is hard to beat), cities are working mostly improved tiles with resources, apart from this priest specialists that have many bonuses from traits and wonders, and doctor+investigator which are good for reducing disease+crime properties.

Trying to construct buildings that are cheapest and give the highest benefits for the longest time, while not replaced soon while progressing techs or not given for free at some point, eternity speed is awesome for these decisions as it feels it matters more to choose something good due to long construction times, examples:
- ancient customs is the first building I create in any new city, highest food, gold and production bonuses useful in any era
- sewer systems adds many housing buildings that mean free gold and production, not obsolete/replaced/given for free at any point, usually 2nd choice
- weaver has average gold output and very low cost, usually creating it after two first
- jeweller is probably most efficient income building in every aspect, low cost, not given for free, replaced very late, large bonuses from resources and guilds
- crafts hut is large economy boost until mall from atomic era, and it gets boost from guild national wonder, so that I usually build it everywhere
- beadworker is much better than bead maker workshop if we compare build time/cost with income that it gives
- carpenter + furniture maker is 5 gold/turn from guild (carpenters) and over 10 from 2nd one
- hat and mask makers are average in these terms, usually creating them after
- then it's time for trading district and bazaar+grocer (market is given for free by medieval world wonder)
- on top of building lists there are many cheap nice options which add gold and production and are replaced very late (vine gatherer, roper, grove rattan, flint gatherer etc.)
- mining camp for production in every era
- emporium for trade route boost
- maintenance reduction at this point is usually >30 gold per turn from single building: bailiwick, polis council (legislature civic), shinto temple and cathedral, tax office after social contract, district office (democracy civic)

skipping:
- not creating libraries beginning from medieval, as they will be given for free by national library service
- not creating mathematics academy due to kerala school of mathematics giving them for free in renaissance
- not creating city council/metropolitan administration unless necessary for requirement, benefits from specialists are low in this era compared to increased maintenance, and it's given for free in information era
- not creating grammaticus or lyceum anymore, due to replaced and given for free by the end of industrial era, construction queues will consist of many other important items
- not creating observatory due to given for free by James Webb space telescope in information era, unless nothing else to construct, although doubtful, a lot of modifiers summing up to 20 base science https://i.imgur.com/NHfGHEH.png
- not creating physics lab due to given for free after modern physics, unless nothing else to construct
- not creating alchemist's lab due to short lifetime, one era until chemistry lab appears
- not creating hand/wind water pumps due to short lifetime, water pumping station appears soon
- not creating parts of castle due to replaced soon by imperial fortress

instead, choosing:
- university in every city that has library, and everywhere after national library service (usually >50 science per one)
- in renaissance andean temples, several types of cathedrals, and monasteries, their usability will last for 2 eras until modern physics, or by the end of game in case of for example andean temple+cathedral
- biology and microbiology labs for later requirements
- chemistry lab (replacement chemicals district available very far away from renaissance)
- arboretum (everything in huge quantities)
- hellenic gymnasia (very high science output)
- paved roads+matching bridges (about 20 science per set)
- engineering school, labs (anatomy, geology, paleontology etc), inventor's workshop if nothing else to create from list of items that are requirements for something else later, as these are never obsolete and never replaced/given for free

renaissance technology route: jurisprudence (supreme court), social contract (tax office), scientific method (free museums), liberalism (free libraries), botany (arboretum), zoology (boost for arboretum), paleontology (theory of evolution project), nationalism (gold standard civic)

traits choice doubtful, I got scientific II (more research and education) and negligent II to reduce maintenance, had doubts between philosophical II (more specialists in capital) and negotiator II (better trade routes, but at this point benefit is small, trade routes economy starts to be beneficial beginning from atomic-information era)

if anyone has better ideas for renaissance, would be awesome:)
 
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tramwajg

Warlord
Joined
May 9, 2014
Messages
202
Location
Poland
turn 2927 - bc 5947
deciding when to abandon slavery: at this point in game, there are not many cities left to conquer, new captives are accumulated much slower than at the beginning of game, while other sources of science than slaves are developing (buildings, specialists), and negative percentage modifiers to science accumulate over eras: https://i.imgur.com/IlysWX1.png
comparing city screen that had accumulated the highest number of slaves since game start, output there is worse, smaller production, science and culture https://i.imgur.com/7e5SQrX.png
however, most of new cities don't have any captives, and it turns out that after abandoning slavery, gold output per turn is about 3000 smaller, while science increased by 6000 from 126500 to 132500 (relatively about 5%), so that it's beneficial at this time

turn 2991 - bc 5548 https://i.imgur.com/K1dkSSb.png
industrial lifestyle, free tech steam power

Freed settled slaves now can work as employees, manual labour in factories owned by billionaires, and they can live american dream, socially advancing, maybe promoted to foreman after 20 years of successful career, while relatives and friends of upper-upper class will start at least from regional branch manager, but that's why our civilization is about to advance to industrial lifestyle, while others are working on masonry and pottery, at least that's what my government can promote in universities and other education centers:) by the end of industrial era, ideals of capitalism must be promoted to young children almost since they are born, so that they will become good and obedient employees as adults. We talked about it on weekly government meeting with country's leading capitalists, we agreed that democracy is the best, however we will split into two groups (the 2nd one is republic) so that almost every citizen will think that they can choose between us and lead to different outcome of politics, while actually we will develop country in same direction. They were wondering what we are going to do, if people from working class wants to take top management positions in our factories, and solution is simple, just tell them that they can't because they lack education or experience, and in worse case let them organise into labour unions where they will think that they change anything, but those who actually take charge of these unions as leaders, will be ones of us, and everything will still be going into desired direction: upper-upper class must be even richer and own even more.

plan for era: railroad, in order to quickly transport goods produced in huge quantities and increase wealth of upper class even more, it's good way for new fortunes to rise, and our citizens will be able to travel faster to factories where they work. If anyone has some money left after paying taxes and other fees such as household expenses in my democratic country, they can travel by train to other countries which are still in ancient era, and they can maybe once in a year enjoy free time from labour in newly developing factories which start to partially base on steam power.

marine biology - free aquarium in every city, base +5 science in 190 cities should equal to about 3000 in total
turn 3011 - bc 5424 https://i.imgur.com/lyUcBpQ.png increase in science by ~2000

assembly line - create even bigger factories which will be constructed as soon as possible to be finished when industrial farms become available (very high production and food)

antibiotics - industrial farms seems to be the best building in this era

agricultural engineering - for corporate owned agriculture civic which is noticeable boost to science

steampunk - only for very fast workers

romanticism - imperial fortress for trade routes and crime reduction, however doubtful if it will be possible to construct between factories and industrial farms, probably after

screw propeller - water pumping station -15% food to growth, expecting good boost for economy (earlier skipped hand and wind water pump) but requires water tower, doubtful if can be made between other important buildings

electricity - large boost for production

management - assembly plant building, not given for free at any point and never obsolete, worth constructing everywhere

compulsory education - expecting large boost to science due to elementary school given for free in every city and lyceums skipped earlier in most of cities (unsure if it was good idea)

telephone - 2 trade routes and good housing buildings, skipping telegraph due to short lifetime and quickly replaced

motorized transportation - golden gate bridge means free bridges everywhere, less micromanagement with constructing roads, and immediate high benefit for science

construction queue for every city, in order to ensure this order of constructing and reduce micromanagement, I use build list, however it's necessary to select all cities with alt button every turn, and add next item from queue with shift button pressed:
ancient customs, aqueduct, sever systems (housing to increase production)
apprentice workshop, carpenter, lumber camp, tannery, factory, power plant, industrial farms, assembly plant (production)
arboretum, university, microbiology+biology+chemistry lab (science and requirements for more advanced atomic era buildings)
squatter camps, water tower, water pumping station,
commercial port, emporium, telephone, imperial fortress, asphalt roads (trade routes)
 
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tramwajg

Warlord
Joined
May 9, 2014
Messages
202
Location
Poland
turn 3167 - bc 4452 https://i.ibb.co/bH6B9Z2/3167bc4452.png
effect of constructing department of education when having 190 cities, is about +11k science (doubful if it was good idea to stop constructing lyceums about medieval era), golden gate bridge is about 5k science

turn 3237 - bc 4016 https://i.imgur.com/O3WyLds.png
atomic era, almost everything as planned above, however I missed fact that obsolete buildings turn into newer versions, that could be used for some helpful tricks, such as constructing cheap castles and waiting a bit longer for them to turn into imperial fortress, or creating city countil shortly before researching motorized transportation in order to have metropolitan administration immediately after, or constructing hand water pumps instead of water tower+water pumping station and then waiting for them to auto convert, gameplay is suboptimal because of missing it and science output could probably be 20-30k higher at this point
 

raxo2222

Time Traveller
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
9,519
Location
Poland
turn 3167 - bc 4452 https://i.ibb.co/bH6B9Z2/3167bc4452.png
effect of constructing department of education when having 190 cities, is about +11k science (doubful if it was good idea to stop constructing lyceums about medieval era), golden gate bridge is about 5k science

turn 3237 - bc 4016 https://i.imgur.com/O3WyLds.png
atomic era, almost everything as planned above, however I missed fact that obsolete buildings turn into newer versions, that could be used for some helpful tricks, such as constructing cheap castles and waiting a bit longer for them to turn into imperial fortress, or creating city countil shortly before researching motorized transportation in order to have metropolitan administration immediately after, or constructing hand water pumps instead of water tower+water pumping station and then waiting for them to auto convert, gameplay is suboptimal because of missing it and science output could probably be 20-30k higher at this point
Do you have save on Transcendent era?
 

tramwajg

Warlord
Joined
May 9, 2014
Messages
202
Location
Poland
Do you have save on Transcendent era?
hey, I had a break in game, continuing after updating to SVN 11418, here is save from early atomic, I will see if I can reach transcendent in this game:) continents were quite small and there is barely anything more to explore. For some reason, recalculating modifiers between previous SVN and next one, leads to large increase in science, from 320k to 390k

turn 3255 - bc 3903: https://i.imgur.com/x54r6kw.jpg
continuing technology path, communism (state owned agriculture), then either modern physics (questionable because obsoletes monastery, but wonder will give free physics lab in every city) or computer networks (silicon valley very good wonder, also obsolete math school which will become math department - much higher science)
 

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