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So how does the AP work?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by ZeekLTK, Jan 12, 2014.

  1. ZeekLTK

    ZeekLTK Warlord

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    I finally got BTS, so I'm playing my first game on it.

    There are 8 civs and Louis XIV built the AP with Taoism.

    Zeek (me) and Hannibal are the only other Taoists, Suryavarman is running Free Religion, Asoka is Buddhist, and Joao is Christian.

    There are also two Confucians (Sitting Bull and Mehmed), but they aren't really involved.

    Basically, we are in the midst of kind a World War. It's basically the 3 Taoists vs the non-Confucians (Zeek, Louis, and Hannibal fighting Sury, Asoka, and Joao).

    So, Louis is the sitting AP resident and he tries to pass a resolution to "end the war against Louis".

    I take this to mean that it will force the AI to make peace with Louis, but they won't make peace with me, so I vote NO because I don't want to lose an ally.

    The vote comes out as such:

    Louis votes YES (240 votes)
    Hannibal votes YES (174 votes)
    Sitting Bull votes YES (59 votes)
    Mehmed votes YES (9 votes)

    Zeek votes NO (258 votes)

    Suryavarman votes NEVER! (Defy resolution) (10 votes)


    YES - 482 votes
    NO - 258 votes
    NEVER! - 10 votes

    Threshold is "Required 465 of 750"


    So, clearly YES has won. However, the result says:

    Stop the fighting among our brothers in faith. Fails! (482 Votes - Required 465 of 750)


    Can someone explain how this "failed" even though it had enough votes to pass? :confused: The guy with 10 votes defeated it by saying "never?" How does that work?
     
  2. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    Defiance blocks any vote, same goes for UN reolutions.
    It does come with penalties though, defying causes significant unhappiness in cities with the AP religion (ok obviously not many in this case), causes you to lose the :hammers: from AP religion religious buildings which can be pretty nasty.
     
  3. Macksideshow

    Macksideshow Prince

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    When the AP is built, religious buildings; temple, monastery, cathedral get a 2 hammer bonus and you don't need to be running the AP religion to get it but, like Ghpstage says, if you defy a resolution you lose this bonus until you vote on a resolution that passes.

    This isnt documented very well in the Civilopedia and I didn't know about it for quite a while.
     
  4. auagxa

    auagxa Warlord

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    You're lucky that Suryavarman II defied the resolution. Usually if the war drags for long, the majority will vote for "Yes" in Stop the War resolutions. If you really have a great advantage against an AI at war, you would want to defy any resolution stopping you from warring until your objectives for that war have been fulfilled.

    In this case however, defying this one isn't worth it since you still have Hannibal as a war ally and you have many Taoist cities that will take +5 unhappines.
     
  5. BigBizkit

    BigBizkit Chieftain

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    Yes, If someone defies the resolution it fails, no matter the other votes. You cannot "defy" the religious leader or AP-President poll though (only abstain).

    I also have a question concerning the AP, and I hope it is ok if I ask it here.

    Let's say the AP is buddhist, I am the President, I have proposed the resolution of religious victory, and the question "BigBizkit - Victoria - Or Abstain" comes up.
    Now everybody casts their votes...

    Now let's say I had 3 Buddhist missionaries camping on Augustus' larget (non-buddhist) cities and convert them right after the votes have been cast. Will this influence the amount of votes (the voting power) Augustus gets in this poll? Or does it only affect the "next round" after that? I am asking because there is some time between the casting of votes and the result; I guess it's one turn but still.

    Thanks (And I don't mean to hijack the thread)
     
  6. s.bernbaum

    s.bernbaum Mostly lurking

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    If Augustus votes before you settle the Buddhist missionaries then they do not increase his votes. If you settle them on the turn that he votes, then they will count, since your turn comes first in each round of turns and therefore the settling occurs before he votes.
     
  7. pomthom

    pomthom Drive & Reverb

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    An other note about defying resolutions: defying a resolution that wouldn't have passed anyway if you hadn't does not penalize you in any way. Of course you can't know that for sure beforehand...
     
  8. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    And multiple defiances will cause unhappiness in each of the defiers' cities, which is pretty nasty.
     
  9. Lennier

    Lennier Emperor

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    That is, the first defiance causes 5 (I think) unhappiness in each city of the defier's that has the AP religion, the second causes 5 more (for a total of 10), etc., like whipping stacks, only more brutal.
     
  10. AdamCrock

    AdamCrock Polish Pudding

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    I think if some 1 votes "Never!" he gets a massive unhappiness "bonus" It can be used as a leverage to get things You want, but not always , well sometimes "never!" so You need to conquer Good luck m8 ;)
     
  11. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    Ah, yes, that's definitely true, but I meant that if you defy a resolution together with someone else, you'll both get the unhappiness.
     
  12. ZeekLTK

    ZeekLTK Warlord

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    Okay, so one more question - how do you propose a "religious victory?"

    As I mentioned, I was AP resident a few turns in that game from the OP and it was never an option - all I could do was ask to stop wars against me, start wars against AI, or stop trading with AI.

    In a new game, I actually managed to build the AP, and I got elected a few times. I still never had the option of trying to win the game.

    What conditions need to be met in order to propose that?
     
  13. Macksideshow

    Macksideshow Prince

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    All civs need to have at least one city with the AP religion is my understanding.
     
  14. pomthom

    pomthom Drive & Reverb

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    And you can't have more that ~75% of the world's AP religion population or something like that. Sun Tzu Wu's the expert on that subject.
     
  15. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

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    In BtS, you can't vote yourself a Diplomatic victory. The option won't appear if you have enough votes to win it singlehandedly.
    Your vassals must vote for you, except that if a vassal would qualify as your opponent; then they vote for themselves.

    This applies to both UN and AP diplo victories.


    The AP owner if always a candidate for AP elections. So, you can get elected Resident when you aren't running the religion. I've read you can switch into the AP religion after the vote comes up and thus double your vote count.
     

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