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[R&F] So...How's R&F?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Wingednosering, Feb 12, 2018.

?

Has R&F met your expectations?

  1. Even better than I expected

    74 vote(s)
    29.8%
  2. It's good, as expected

    123 vote(s)
    49.6%
  3. It's good, but I wasn't expecting much

    28 vote(s)
    11.3%
  4. It isn't very good, no surprise

    22 vote(s)
    8.9%
  5. It is terrible. I had such high hopes!

    1 vote(s)
    0.4%
  1. RohirrimElf

    RohirrimElf King

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    967
    Civ 6 is packed with content right now. And i had to lower the difficulty by one level without even using mods to enhance the game.
    A lot of things turned out better then expected. New soundtrack is amazing (Shaka 10/10).
    Rise and Fall has reached my expectations and gone beond that. So yeah i`m very pleased with the state of the game right now.
     
    Ferocitus and Thormodr like this.
  2. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,020
    I'm still not sure if emergencies are triggering correctly - they seem extremely rare. My current game is the only one in which I've seen more than one, and that's despite widespread capture of city states in previous games (not as much in this one because it's an archipelago map where many are isolated).

    The rewards certainly need tweaking. They're far too generous to the human player if they win, and the commonest emergencies - which appear to be city-state emergencies - don't appear to penalise the player heavily for being on the losing side. All they do is give the AI gold, where other emergencies give the losing player outright disadvantages, and it's not clear to me that the AI can leverage that extra gold into real game advantages well enough for it to matter.

    I'm also not sure how you circumvent the issue that the player can always prevent an emergency from triggering if they want by razing newly-conquered cities, something the AI doesn't do. You can't liberate a city that no longer exists. Fixing razing so that it would work similarly to Civ V may help, but could make things even worse for the AI - an emergency that they only have 4-5 turns to win (I suppose the emergency could be cancelled rather than treated as lost if the city is destroyed before time's up).
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  3. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,020
    In my game the islands aren't that close - the issue is that the 3-tile requirement requires an L-shaped coastline (assuming a single landmass), and in pretty much every case on my island at least one of the three tiles in those areas of coast is a hill. A couple of other sites that would have been suitable for polders were more attractive for harbours thanks to adjacency bonuses.
     
  4. Hactar

    Hactar Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
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    Male
    Poll needs another option “I don’t know; I have a Mac”
     
    Wingednosering likes this.
  5. trashcat

    trashcat Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    20
    I still miss Civ 5's world congress, but who knows.

    Still, I find myself really enjoying this expansion. I had a really hard time getting into Civ VI after playing V -- especially going from a "tall" mentality to a "wide" one. I also found it frustrating that domination seemed like the go-to strategy and I'm glad to see that this is not as much the case now. The game just feels a lot more engaging. I still haven't quite wrapped my head around the best ways to utilize the governors as I tend not to move them around as much as I'm sure I should and I still have a lot to learn about Civ VI as a whole but I've played it more now than I have since its original launch.
     
    cairnsy44 likes this.
  6. King Rad

    King Rad Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    224
    Location:
    Pensacola, Florida
    I was hoping and really expecting quite a lot from this expansion based on the previews; and unlike many I loved VI even with what many saw as its 'problems'. But I have to say this expansion is even better than I expected. I love all the new features I've encountered so far [haven't had an emergency yet]. Loyalty and governors are great, but I also like the change to moving trade routes to buildings as opposed to districts - may not sound like much but when I looked and saw I had 2 of 2 available trade routes going, and not the gazillion I'm used to, it really hit home. Now, in addition to just building a district, you have to go to the first building as well - something that's valuable but which I often waited about because of other opportunities, etc. The change in the alliance mechanic is also good. Overall, for me this is the best Civ game yet. I can only imagine how great it will be after a little more tweaking (and then the next expansion with a diplo victory and who knows what else). I really need to retire fully so I can play all the time!
     
  7. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    2,872
    emergencies seem to be kinda hit or miss...but sometimes they are great!

    In my current game Alex is doing really well, conquering quite a few cities in the classical. But when he captured the capital of my next door neighbor (my ally) it triggered the emergency. None of the other AI chose to accept, but meh - didn't want their help anyway. Now I can be the hero by rescuing my dead ally back from the grave, and getting a ton of gold too (no splitting the pot). The first 20 turns went by already, I killed a lot of Alex's units but am still closing in on the capital....with have 10 turns left it's gonna be close...

    honestly it's pretty fun stuff. the rest of my emergencies have been more "meh" though.
     
  8. Eliminator_Sr

    Eliminator_Sr Prince

    Joined:
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    I would say that it definitely enhances the game and the new mechanics are generally well thought out (minus emergencies). I was hoping for more AI enhancements and a Diplomatic victory but at this point it seems like the best bet is to rely on mods.

    My first game was really easy for some reason, but I've since upped the difficulty and I'm finding it to be more of a challenge. I think the loyalty system helps act as a deterrent for rampant early warmongering and forces you to plan out your early cities more carefully. I really like the timeline and era points. I haven't really tested out alliances yet, but I wasn't expecting much there anyway as I was mostly ignoring diplomacy in Vanilla and will probably continue to until DV is implemented.
     
  9. Jackanape

    Jackanape Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Messages:
    190
    Definitely give Alliances a try. It changes the texture of the usually very boring and predictable AI game.

    As far as emergencies, I had a religious emergency in my latest game with Scotland. I hadn't considered that they would have those, as well. So whos to say how the system can end up...?
     
  10. Mr Jon of Cheam

    Mr Jon of Cheam Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Messages:
    420
    Emergencies are a great concept but not fully realised yet in my opinion. I see a lot of potential!
     
  11. Chocolate Pi

    Chocolate Pi Chieftain

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    I'll be super impressed if Firaxis (or anyone) comes up with logic that can consistently generate interesting Emergencies with the current system. It's the sort of problem that a human could do pretty easily, but is very challenging to do via algorithm.

    In terms of minor nit-picks, the Flirty agendas are just cringe-worthy, and Food Market is a joke. But I'm glad these petty things are the biggest issues to complain about!
     
    Thormodr likes this.
  12. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,020
    All the new non-government buildings are a mistake. The water park and its buildings should go, and the neighbourhood buildings are just free stuff that serves no real purpose.
     
  13. Chocolate Pi

    Chocolate Pi Chieftain

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    The Water Park feels like a solution in search of a problem, but there's nothing really bad about it per se. They are expensive, but I can imagine cases where I'd opt in.

    The Shopping Mall is like, okay, whatever, fine. The option to construct more Tourism? We needed more Tourism at the very least (Cultural victories take too long currently), so sure, why not.

    But the Food Market is nuts. There is no circumstance where anyone is spending 465 production on 3 food a turn.
     
    Uberfrog likes this.
  14. cairnsy44

    cairnsy44 Gooner - first class

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2006
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    619
    Location:
    Vermont
    I admit to stepping away for quite some time shortly after I played a few games of VI. It just didn't hold my attention like the previous editions. I felt like there was too many buildings and units that I would never use and I just wasn't having the fun I used to have playing. So on to other things. I held off buying the expansion right away. I wanted to see what everyone thought. In reading these, I am probably going to give it a try.
     
    Thormodr likes this.
  15. LedStone

    LedStone Chieftain

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    Rise and Fall is great. Tons of new content and improvements. From the get go the tons of new civs, buildings, units, resources and wonders is worth it. Governors are very straightfoward. Loyalty mostly makes sense balance wise (cant sustain large empires as easily). The only thing is I dont totally understand is how Eras work but I'll work on that.
    They also cleaned up the base game's UI with, for example, much better city name info. Like next to your city name theres a representation of how long it will take for buildings and the next population. Also the game is less focalized around religion with new non religious civ bonuses and tons of non-religious related content
    So yeah great dlc, very much recommend it
     
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  16. JacquesBquick

    JacquesBquick Chieftain

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    My anecdote time! As Korea, I had an emergency offer come up against Shaka for conquering Hong Kong. It was offered to me (other side of the continent) and to Kongo and Arabia (bordering shaka and Hong Kong). Arabia and I accepted. Before I could get my units over there, it was taking me about 10 turns to do so, Arabia had marched his army over and liberated hong kong all on his own! This is only at Prince Difficulty
     
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  17. Chocolate Pi

    Chocolate Pi Chieftain

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    Aside: The one thing I was disappointed R&F didn't touch was air. I always considered the irrelevance of air units (and buildings) tragically ironic given the game's musical theme.
     
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  18. Starwars

    Starwars Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2017
    Messages:
    225
    I'm enjoying it a lot. I guess slightly over my expectations I would say.

    Loyalty: Maybe my fav mechanic of the bunch. Just does wonders to just... change things up a bit. Unfortunately I think the AI is pretty bad at managing it (and settling those absolutely braindead cities still at times) but I've always loved the idea of taking things over via non-combat ways. Loved it in Civ IV and I love it. It's just great fun to use.
    Alliance changees: This is also high on my list. Finally it gives the whole diplomatic thing a bit of an oomph and it has changed the way I approach diplomacy a lot. Before I just didn't care, now, the diplomatic AI still annoys me but I find myself developing longterm relationships. That's just great I think. I also love that you can get pulled into wars and stuff.
    Governors: Still don't like the art for them and the idea of them as "individuals" But they are fun to play around with and I like the way they work together with the Loyalty system a lot. Needs a lot of balancing still I think.
    Ages: Torn on this. I mean, it's pretty fun and, again, I like the way it interacts with loyalty. But the whole "score points!" system through quests isn't quite my cup of tea, just like the eureka system isn't quite something I like. But still, pretty fun-
    Emergencies: I guess the biggest disappointment for me. I had hoped more for something that felt a bit more... substantial when they were first announced. Something that could really flip things around, be a challenge and/or a way to come back from a bad situation but they mostly feel really random to me. Even the way you accept or reject feels... sloppy as it doesn't process anything until the next turn. The whole thing feels half-baked to me. Good idea but poor execution.

    Overall I'm very pleased with R&F.
     
    steveg700 likes this.
  19. Kataklysm

    Kataklysm Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
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    Location:
    Quebec
    I'll have to give it more time, i'm just about to finish my first game with the Dutch (standard speed, Emperor).

    Speaking only of this game, it's been rather boring: I've always stayed in 'Normal ages', never clinching a Golden one nor falling under in a Dark one. Same with the Historic Moments, they seem rather random tbh. Loyalty has played almost no role at all in my game, all my cities stayed at max loyalty so far. Found the Governors rather easy to use and either provided OP bonuses (Magnus) or almost useless or very specific.Built a few Government district buildings, which force you to stick with a playstyle, which is not a bad idea. Not a big fan of the 'Water Parks, Ferris wheel and Shopping Mall yaaaaaay' type of buildings tbh, but for some reason they make sense. On top of that, no emergency triggered yet, nor special Alliance concluded (they all hate my face too much).

    So all in all I think that it has not been a very representative RaF game. I'll try another one on Epic speed soon to find out if it really has the potential I think it has. And I miss CQUI so much :'(
     
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  20. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
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    3,189
    I still run into other civ's and their capitals within the first few turns.

    AI still doesn't know how to do much of anything with military, be it land, sea, or air.

    AI still insane with building every wonder. Need to cap this somehow. Not good for the AI's strategy, not fun for me. Although, lost production now overflows properly.

    AI goes insane conquering city-states. Basically, envoys are a waste at city-states that aren't close enough for me to shelter.

    Barbs insane with sudden geysers of units that can pretty much paralyze any civ in its tracks for a game-busting number of turns.

    AI has yet to offer me an alliance or participate in an emergency, although other people have shared different experiences.

    Timeline is neat.

    Have not gotten tired of experimenting. Still trying various shuffle games, abandoning all around the renaissance.
     

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