So I went to a church last night.

[Onionsoilder]

My cousin invited me to dinner and later, asked if I wanted to go to church with her. I accepted, partially out of curiosity but mostly because she didn't want to go alone. Not being religious myself, I found it very interesting - possibly even enlightening - and I learned a lot about how many Christians view things, such as why suffering exists on earth and possibly even more importantly, why it's acceptable because of the second coming and all that. In fact, most of the stuff I learned I don't think I could have ever discovered outside of a church, as the pastor covered a lot of interesting subjects in a certain way during the sermon.

The beginning was very interesting, going over the Kingdom of Heaven, though I was really put off towards the end when he started talking about the nature of sin and how everyone sins, though only those who get saved are forgiven for them. That's when I realized that even though there were some things I liked, there is still too many things about organized religion I dislike and can't agree with, which is why I don't think I could ever convert. Still, I am glad I went, as it helped me understand a lot of viewpoints I had never thought to consider.

Has anyone had any similar experiences? Obviously there will be very different experiences between believers and nonbelievers, but I'm interested in hearing both accounts.

 

[MobBoss]

Why does the fact that everyone sins upset you?

 

[Shekwan]

I've been to Catholic and Protestant churches.

The Protestants seemed to like each other and the Minister, they even sang a bit. There seemed to be a bit of social mingling too. Also there was lots of families going together.

Whereas the Catholics were all very solemn and guilty looking whilst they obeyed the Fuhrer Priest leading the chants. Mass is seemingly no place for smiling or frivolous activities like singing. It was mostly old people, going alone.

A pretty big contrast in my opinion.


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[Onionsoilder]

Why does the fact that everyone sins upset you?

It's not that everyone sins - to err is human after all, and everyone slips up at least now and then. Rather, it's that only those who accept Jesus are forgiven, while those who who have a good heart and try to do good, but aren't religious, are not.

 

[Formaldehyde]

My parents only had one rule about which churches our family attended. If the minister started preaching about how everybody sinned and must be saved in order to not be subjected to everlasting hell, we were gone like a shot.

There are a lot of different Protestant churches. The vast majority of them aren't fundamentalist.

 

[Lillefix]

Of the three digit number of times I've been to church, not one have fascinated me. There are a couple of nice hymns, but that's it. The most interesting thing that ever happened was all the lit candles on All Saints Day. But it seems to me you knew next to nothing about Christianity, which is very different from me.

 

[MobBoss]

It's not that everyone sins - to err is human after all, and everyone slips up at least now and then. Rather, it's that only those who accept Jesus are forgiven, while those who who have a good heart and try to do good, but aren't religious, are not.

Well, Christianity wouldnt make a lot of sense there were no forgiveness or you never had to ask for it.

The point of asking for forgiveness is being freed from the burden of sin that is upon the person, and its offered freely to anyone that asks. Thats part of the Gospel, or the 'good news'. In turn, everyone has a choice to either ask for that forgiveness....or not.

Perhaps you should read up on what Jesus said about presumably 'good' people. That might help you understand it a bit more.

My parents only had one rule about which churches our family attended. If the minister started preaching about how everybody sinned and must be saved in order to not be subjected to everlasting hell, we were gone like a shot.

There are a lot of different Protestant churches. The vast majority of them aren't fundamentalist.

Ah....thats kind of a basic tenet of christianity tho. Even a less fundamentalist one will preach this, but are usually less 'in your face' about it.....but its still a basic truth of the faith.

 

[nato2101]

The point of asking for forgiveness is being freed from the burden of sin that is upon the person, and its offered freely to anyone that asks.

Which is what is wrong with the religion. You can be a murder, rapist, or paedophile and ask for forgiveness and it is granted and you get into the "club". But if you are a person who has never done evil, but rather worked to help others all your life but you don't ask to be let in then you are automatically excluded.

 

[Abaddon]

I had a similar experience.. I went along where a friend sings. I used to love singing when I was younger, here was somewhere I could. Also, since there was a proper choir, it wasn't a load of fusties mumbling away.. it was actual singing.

Kinda got bored with the rest of it, but I sure enjoyed singing again!

(I do enjoy visiting churches, but I get the same feeling visiting anything historic)

 

[MobBoss]

Which is what is wrong with the religion. You can be a murder, rapist, or paedophile and ask for forgiveness and it is granted and you get into the "club". But if you are a person who has never done evil, but rather worked to help others all your life but you don't ask to be let in then you are automatically excluded.

Well, the request does have to be 'sincere'.....its not just the mouthing of the words, but rather a heart issue. Its kind of hard to lie to a being that can see what your heart is on a particular issue. So, while its simple in actual execution, its far more complex than initially thought. Its meant to be a change or mind and spirit for the good....not a 'get out of jail free' card.

 

[Luckymoose]

Catholic church isn't supposed to be a happy place. It's a place to earn your forgiveness.

 

[Lillefix]

The point of asking for forgiveness is being freed from the burden of sin that is upon the person, and its offered freely to anyone that asks. Thats part of the Gospel, or the 'good news'. In turn, everyone has a choice to either ask for that forgiveness....or not.

I disagree. It's not a choice, it's a threat. Imagine a man who holds a gun towards your head. He says that you have a choice. You give him the money and you live, otherwise you keep the money and you die. That's not a choice. Luckily the church has gone further and further away from this threat with hell, but it's still lurking under there somewhere. And priests always hesitate when they try to explain what happens to nonchristians when they die.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Once again, all but the fundamentalist Protestant churches and the Catholics don't stress that aspect anymore. Instead, they promote that you simply don't "sin" in the first place. And they are simply not interested on the lesser "sins" for the most part, like homosexuality or open adultery.

 

[MobBoss]

I disagree. It's not a choice, it's a threat. Imagine a man who holds a gun towards your head. He says that you have a choice. You give him the money and you live, otherwise you keep the money and you die.

If you dont believe in God, then that gun to your head is simply imaginary isnt it?

Its absolutely a choice, and one offered to everyone, regardless of what they have done in life. Pretty equal and fair in my opinion, if you ask me.

That's not a choice.

Of course it is. And given the two options, you would think it an easy choice...but its not.

Luckily the Christ has gone further and further away from this threat with hell, but it's still lurking under there somewhere. And priests always hesitate when they try to explain what happens to nonchristians when they die.

You prefer a watered-down version of it rather than the truth? Many do. I don't.

Once again, all but the fundamentalist Protestant churches and the Catholics don't stress that aspect anymore. Instead, they promote that you simply don't "sin" in the first place. And they are simply not interested on the lesser "sins" for the most part, like homosexuality or adultery.

I have been to a lot of different protestant churchs and a couple catholic services in my life. A lot. And never, ever, ever, did I ever see one that said people dont 'sin' in the first place.

If 'sin' is non-existant, what do we need God for? A church that tries to go that route has deviated so far from the Gospel as to be meaningless.

 

[downtown]

Once again, all but the fundamentalist Protestant churches and the Catholics don't stress that aspect anymore. Instead, they promote that you simply don't "sin" in the first place. And they are simply not interested on the lesser "sins" for the most part,r open adultery.

I'd have a hard time accepting a Christian church that wrote off something so important as one of the Ten Commandments.

I go to church almost every Sunday. We sing, we laugh, we hang out with each other afterwards. Last sunday, we had a big lunch after church. When church no longer makes me happy, I'll stop going. Christianity isn't called "the good news" because it's supposed to make people dour and angry. If your service is like that, I submit they're missing the point.

 

[MobBoss]

I'd have a hard time accepting a Christian church that wrote off something so important as one of the Ten Commandments.

I go to church almost every Sunday. We sing, we laugh, we hang out with each other afterwards. Last sunday, we had a big lunch after church. When church no longer makes me happy, I'll stop going. Christianity isn't called "the good news" because it's supposed to make people dour and angry. If your service is like that, I submit they're missing the point.

I agree. Such churches tend to die off anyway. Todays churchs that do well, dont pull punches on the message, but are able to keep it upbeat and energetic, and overwhelmingly positive. And there are a lof of them out there like that too.

 

[Onionsoilder]

Well, Christianity wouldnt make a lot of sense there were no forgiveness or you never had to ask for it.

The point of asking for forgiveness is being freed from the burden of sin that is upon the person, and its offered freely to anyone that asks. Thats part of the Gospel, or the 'good news'. In turn, everyone has a choice to either ask for that forgiveness....or not.

Perhaps you should read up on what Jesus said about presumably 'good' people. That might help you understand it a bit more.

I might read some of that. At it's heart though, a 'good' person, even if he has sinned, should be less evil than an unrepentant rapist/murderer/torturer, shouldn't he? Yet they deserve the same fate?

 

[warpus]

Its absolutely a choice, and one offered to everyone, regardless of what they have done in life. Pretty equal and fair in my opinion, if you ask me.

Everyone? Was it offered to Moses? How about Buddha? Or a member of one of the undiscovered tribes in the Amazon?

What do you mean when you say "everyone" ?

 

[Lillefix]

Once again, all but the fundamentalist Protestant ones and the Catholics don't stress that aspect anymore. Instead, they promote that you simply don't "sin" in the first place. And they are simply not interested on the lesser "sins" for the most part, like homosexuality or adultery.

That's not my experience. What I have learned(lutheran) is that everyone are equally sinful, so that everyone is on equal footing. Which is a teaching that I don't mind. But my problem(not really a problem, but it's annoying) with christianity in Norway is that they all talk about the rewards the true believes will get in heaven, but they refuse to make clear what happens to those that don't believe, because they know so very well the disgusting biblical stance on this. Seriously, if this trend continues their teaching is about to make the entire faith pointless. But so far, they just try to ignore the problem.

If you dont believe in God, then that gun to your head is simply imaginary isnt it?

I'll give you that one. That's a good point.

 

[NovaKart]

I occasionally went to church when I was growing up and still sometimes go when I'm back home. My mother is Baptist and my stepmother is Catholic so sometimes I would go to one, sometimes another.

This was a Bible Belt Catholic church and wasn't really so different from Protestant churches. It wasn't really solemn but there was more formality, like people had to say certain things at certain times. They also took communion every time which was kind of funny because almost no one drinks out of the chalice anymore (since people don't like drinking from the same chalice as everyone else) but there's always a long line for the bread.

I've been to Orthodox Churches in Bulgaria and Georgia (the country). I'm always a bit nervous when I go to Orthodox churches because they're far more ritualistic than anything I'm used to and I feel like an outsider and I'm not familiar with what I'm supposed to do. The times I've gone there normally wasn't a church service going on so I just bought some candles and lit them in front of the icons. A couple times there was a church service going on but everyone was standing so I could easily slip in and out and just have a look at the church.