[BTS] So it's 2019 (ok, almost over now), and I just got into Civ4. Yes, I'm weird.

R82

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Hi Everyone,

being the kinda strange person that I am, I decided to start playing Civ4 about 14 years after it came out. I had originally started playing Civ3 around 2004, but when Civ4 came out, first I wasn't sure if it would run on my computer at the time (I've basically always used computers that were a bit behind the curve throughout my life), and second, I heard that in Civ4, getting more cities costs money instead of bringing in money, and I didn't like that idea at first. So I stuck with Civ3.

I wasn't really tempted by the post-Civ4 games, either - I don't like the Civ5 rule of one unit per tile, and Civ6 is so new that I'm not sure it would run on my current computer. So I just played Civ3 over the years, and occasionally some Alpha Centauri.

Anyway, a few weeks ago I finally decided to give Civ4 a try, and decided that I had been wrong all the time. I actually like not having to worry so much about REXing anymore, and I like almost all the things they changed since Civ3. Especially, of course, not having to send workers after pollution anymore. The only change that bugs me a bit is how you can't see new cities founded in areas you have already explored without revisiting the areas anymore. And, it's a bit annoying that it's near impossible to get AIs to give me maps for tech.

I should note that I'm not actually all that good at any version of Civ - I can beat Noble if I start in a perfect place, and the same was true for the fair fight level in Civ3 (I've forgotten what that was called). And, I've stuck to Vanilla so far.

I always play on the huge map - I know that the advice to new players is to stick to the smaller map sizes for a while, but for purely aesthetic reasons, I prefer to have some distance between the tropics and the polar regions. Partly because of that, so far I've usually tried for science victories - waging war on a truly global scale on the huge map is a bit too much for me for now.

At the moment, I prefer to play as Asoka - organized might be the most useful trait in the game, allowing for a larger empire that is still economically efficient, and when I start out with Mysticism, I can usually found Hinduism. How is he usually regared?

Since, as I said, I'm not that good at Civ in general, I've only won two games on Noble so far, and in the first one of these, I had started out on a relatively small continent with just one other Civ, so I felt a bit like a cheat.

That's all, I think. Two questions: 1) Is there anything in the saved game files that I might not want other people to see? That is, are there any security or privacy issues with posting them online?
2) Is there any way of extracting event logs as text files?
 

georgjorge

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Welcome to the forums! Good to have fresh players start playing IV ; )

Sorry that I can't help you with your questions at the end (I've uploaded save games numerous times without worrying about the issues you mentioned).

Asoka is a pretty strong leader for some reasons: Spiritual is a very good trait though it takes experience to use well, and Organized is not so important on lower levels, but rather good on higher ones (where maintenance is high). And the Fast Worker will always give you some value, which is not the case for many other unique units.

However, you will find that founding a religion at the start - while it certainly adds to the experience of the game - is usually not an optimal play. It gives you very little value, because you can use a religion the AI spreads to you just as well for happiness and culture, and making a shrine yourself in your holy city is often more trouble than it's worth (generation a Great Prophet). On the other hand, the "worker techs" (which allow a worker to improve your resources, like Agriculture or Mining) are good to have very early, and so is Bronze Working or Pottery.

If you want useful advice, want to post a game for others to follow etc. then the other Civ IV subforum - Strategy - will be more helpful for you than this one, I think.
 
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lymond

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Welcome! :band:

Yep, Strategy & Tips forum is a great place to learn. It is here:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/forums/civ4-strategy-tips.155/

Follow along with the other newer players learning right now, or start your own game.

I would play Beyond the Sword (BTS). It is the full version of Civ IV. Also, you have some nice mods to use to enhance the game..unaltered gameplay:

BUG/BULL or BAT and Blue Marble can be found here:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/download-bug-and-bat-here.274636/

BUG/BULL are basically ui mods and work together. Blue Marble is a small graphical mod that improves terrain and water, and you can change UI color.

BAT is BUG/BULL and graphic stuff combined in one super mod.

I really recommend playing normal maps and settings for now. Huge is not doing you any favors. Just learn the game with normal settings (and no huts/events) for now. This is a very complex game with tons to learn and enjoy.

Asoka is a fine leader - mainly for Spiritual trait and the great fast worker. Organized is a very average trait. You will learn why on this over time. But in general, leader should not matter. The leader is not the primary reason for success with this game by a long shot.

hmmmm...never once thought about security in a save file. I guess you could change your config file if you want to change your alias to other than the default which I think is designated by your computer name. Other than that I see no issue with save files.

Not totally sure on log files, but pretty sure you can set this up with the BUG mod to generate a log file....color coded too I believe.
 
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R82

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Thank you, everyone!


Welcome! :band:

Yep, Strategy & Tips forum is a great place to learn. It is here:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/forums/civ4-strategy-tips.155/

Follow along with the other newer players learning right now, or start your own game.

I would play Beyond the Sword (BTS). It is the full version of Civ IV. Also, you have some nice mods to use to enhance the game..unaltered gameplay:

BUG/BULL or BAT and Blue Marble can be found here:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/download-bug-and-bat-here.274636/

BUG/BULL are basically ui mods and work together. Blue Marble is a small graphical mod that improves terrain and water, and you can change UI color.

BAT is BUG/BULL and graphic stuff combined in one super mod.

I really recommend playing normal maps and settings for now. Huge is not doing you any favors. Just learn the game with normal settings (and no huts/events) for now. This is a very complex game with tons to learn and enjoy.

Asoka is a fine leader - mainly for Spiritual trait and the great fast worker. Organized is a very average trait. You will learn why on this over time. But in general, leader should not matter. The leader is not the primary reason for success with this game by a long shot.

hmmmm...never once thought about security in a save file. I guess you could change your config file if you want to change your alias to other than the default which I think is designated by your computer name. Other than that I see no issue with save files.

Not totally sure on log files, but pretty sure you can set this up with the BUG mod to generate a log file....color coded too I believe.

Thank you, I'll see what I make of that.
 

Civlopod

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I agree with what others have said, BTS is the best way to experience the game. I didn't really like Civ4 over Civ3 until I got the complete edition. The BUG mod really improved things too, though actually I didn't start using it until recently.

I have Civ6 and all the expansions, but to be honest I like Civ4 better. Had I known how little I would play Civ6 compared to Civ4 I'm not sure I would have spent the money on it.
 
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ArchGhost

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I also highly recommend getting at least BUG mod. If you plan to watch videos or learn from other players, the vast majority of them (Sullla doesn't, generally, if you want a more "pure" experience when learning from another player) use BUG or the similar/expanded BUFFY. These mods don't really alter any gameplay, they just clean up some interfaces, bring important information out to the forefront (such as the ever critical information about war plotting) and add some extra info to the civlopedia (a lot of articles that are from this very site) and organization tools much more powerful than what is in the standard game.
 
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R82

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Thank you, everyone. I've switched to BTS now, and I tend to play as Justinian at the moment. I can't install BUG, though - when I try, it says it can't find the BTS registry entry. I suspect that's because I got Civ4 from gog.com, so both game files and game-related registry entries are probably somewhere else than where they would "normally" be.
 

lymond

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Thank you, everyone. I've switched to BTS now, and I tend to play as Justinian at the moment. I can't install BUG, though - when I try, it says it can't find the BTS registry entry. I suspect that's because I got Civ4 from gog.com, so both game files and game-related registry entries are probably somewhere else than where they would "normally" be.

I've seen comments from some folks about an certain issue with the Gog version, but don't know the details. It may be just an issue with Linux installs though. Otherwise, you should not have a problem installing mods with the GOG version. You may have to point mods to the right directory in some cases as GOG may have a unique folder structure.

Registry issues sound like an install issue I would recommend uninstalling the game and reinstalling. Make sure you run all executables - game executable and mod executables - using the "run as administrator" option. Also, go to the BTS exe and set it to run as administrator under properties.

I suggest not using GOG Galaxy to install the game or to run the game. Download the game files directly from GOG and install as I just mentioned above. Always run BTS from the executable or a short cut.

All this assumes a normal Windows setup. Please let us know if you have another type of setup or OS.
 
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R82

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For the record, I've installed Civ4 using the offline installation files, not GOG Galaxy. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to tell a mod to look for game folders elsewhere than in the "standard" places. Yes, I'm using a normal Windows (10) setup. (If you're a Mod or Admin and the forum software tells you that I post here under Linux - yes, I do. I dual-boot, and I generally use Windows for gaming (among other things), and Linux for posting on forums (among other things).)

As far as playing the game is concerned, I haven't won under BTS yet. Weird how a game that can be as frustrating as Civ can at the same time be as addictive. I guess I'm currently in the "always fighting the last war" phase. For instance, I once lost my initial warrior to hostile villagers, and after that, for a while I always used scouts to visit villages, even when that meant leaving known villages alone for a while and risking losing them to another Civ. Sometimes I've expanded very cautiously and ended up being beaten by larger Civs who, although they were behind me in science because of their high city costs, could still beat me with the sheer numbers of their inferior units. When that happened, I usually reacted by expanding more rapidly the next time, which of course meant that I got hopelessly behind in science. Ah well.
 

R82

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I've now managed it to install the BAT Mod, by simply ignoring the warning about the missing registry entry. I'm sorry, I really should have thought of that before. It seems to work fine so far.

But before I did that, I won my first game in BTS under Noble. I played as Gilgamesh, because in an earlier game when I played as someone else, I had come across Sumerian Vultures, and I decided that I wanted to be the one with the Vultures. I played on a huge continents map - I'm sorry, I know I'm not supposed to do that, but I simply like huge maps.

I must admit that I had a LOT of luck:

1) I started out very close to both Ivory and Gold,
2) I had a fair amount of land that was a good deal easier to reach for me than for anyone else, and
3) I got both Animal Husbandry AND Metal Casting from tribal villages.

I started out on a continent with the Koreans to my West, the Malinese to my Northwest, a fair amount of free land to my South, the ocean to my East, the Celts under Boudica in the far Northwest of the continent, and the Aztecs in the far Northeast of the continent.

My original plan was to found as many cities as I could, wage some wars against my neighbors until I was the dominant power on my continent, and then use that position to get a Space Race Victory. It didn't really work out, though. I did manage to found nine cities and capture two Barbarian cities, and when I declared war on Mali, I managed it to capture the closest border city relatively quickly. But then, my campaign simply stalled, and I didn't get anywhere for a long, long, long time. Only much later, when I managed it to get tanks a while before my enemies (by that time, those were the Aztecs and the Koreans), did I manage it to conquer a significant number of cities, and by that time, it was a bit too late for those cities to contribute much to my efforts.

I still made some basic beginner's mistakes. Most importantly, I almost completely ignored siege weapons. That was, frankly, because I didn't really know how they are supposed to be used. Apparently neither the manuals nor the Civilopedia explain the bombard button. I only found out about when my bombard-capable ships ended up next to an enemy city.

I also thought that one religion in each city was enough, and didn't bother trying to spread additional ones. When I accidentally founded Islam (I had planned to skip Divine Right, but couldn't resist the temptation after I got free beakers for it from discovered manuskripts), I sent the free missionary to my capital to spread it there, but then left it at that - I didn't built a monastery and didn't train any more missionaries. Stupid of me, I know.

And, I accepted Mali as an ally (on their initiative) when they were at war with the Aztecs without realizing that this would instantly draw me into a war with the Aztecs - I had thought that there would be a chance to negotiate peace first.

I also lost a few spaceship components because I built them in cities without good counterspionage provisions. Won't do that again.

Finally, once I got corporations, I spread them in my own cities, instead of other Civs' cities.

Despite all that, I won in the end.

After I had started out with Agriculture and The Wheel, the order of my technological research was this: Hunting, Archery, Mining, Bronze Working, Iron Working, got Animal Husbandry from a village, Masonry, Fishing, Sailing, Pottery, Mysticism, Meditation, Priesthood, Writing, Mathematics, got Metal Casting from a village, Construction, Horseback Riding, Alphabet, Monarchy, Calendar, Currency, Machinery, Compass, Optics, got Polytheism through trade, Aesthetics, Literature, Music, Code of Laws, Civil Service, Philosophy, Nationalism, got Feudalism through trade, got Monotheism through trade, got Engineering through trade, got Theology through trade, got Guilds through trade, Military Tradition, Gunpowder, Divine Right (had planned to skip this one, but got free beakers for it through rediscovered manuskripts), got Paper through trade, got Banking through trade, got Astronomy through trade, Education, Liberalism (someone got this a few turns before me), Chemistry, Military Science, got Printing Press through trade, Replaceable Parts, got Constitution through trade from a vassal whom I had ordered to research it, Rifling, got Economics through trade, Scientific Method (which I decided to get through trade shortly before I would have finished researching it), Steel, got Democracy through trade from a vassal whom I had ordered to research it, Steam Power, Railroads, got Corporation through trade, Assembly Line, got Physics through trade, Combustion, Electricity, Industrialism, Plastics, Radio, Computers, Robotics, got Artillery through trade, Rocketry, got Fascism, Communism, Mass Media, Biology, and Medicine through The Internet, Satellites, Composites, got Flight throught The Internet, Superconductors, Fission, Fiber Optics, got Refrigeration through The Internet, got Advanced Flight through The Internet, Fusion, Genetics, Ecology, and got Laser through The Internet.

The World Wonders I built were the Hanging Gardens (couldn't resist when I saw they were just eight turns away), the Pentagon (didn't want another Civ to get it), the Internet, and the Space Elevator. I don't think I could have won without those last two. I also tried to get the Spiral Minaret and the Taj Mahal, but was beaten for both of those.
 

6K Man

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Sounds like a fun game. From a pure learning standpoint, you’re better off using less luck-dependent settings – normal sized map, Pangea, no huts or events. But it sounds like you learned some valuable lessons, which is how people learned games before there were internet forums.

Siege: Siege should be between 30-50% of your stack. Now you know.

Monasteries/religions – Monasteries can make sense in your capital or another strong science city for the +10% beakers, but it’s seldom a good idea to build a lot of them, or to build missionaries to spread the religion around your nation. It can make sense to spread a new religion to another AI, just because it can break up a religious block. Sometimes the AI will spread your religion to all its cities for you, which is great if you have the shrine for it.

Corporations – some are good to spread to your cities, some are good to spread to AI cities – that’s a longer discussion. If you are going to spread them to your cities, you’ll want a Courthouse in those cities, and Bank/Market/Grocer in your HQ city. Otherwise there’s a good chance you lose money on them.

Diplomacy – yup, if you accept a vassal that’s at war with someone, you’re at war, too. But if you’re at war with someone and another AI vassals them, you’re no longer at war. Confusing, that.

World Wonders: The ones you built are kind of crappy. If you’re going to build Wonders, Great Lighthouse is great for watery maps with lots of coast, Taj Mahal is great on huge maps with lots of cities (especially if you time it with the civic changes with Liberalism). Oracle can be chopped out quickly to beeline a tech you want. Others are more situational – if you have the resources for them, Great Library and Pyramids are good early choices
 

rah

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Monasteries/religions – Monasteries can make sense in your capital or another strong science city for the +10% beakers, but it’s seldom a good idea to build a lot of them,
The exception being if you have the traits to produce them cheaper and they're for the AP religion so you get the additional 2 hammers for them.
For that, If it's early, I'll spam some.
 

topsecret

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As for why to use siege, they do collateral damage, which hurts other units besides the one attacked, even if they lose. They weaken those giant stacks in cities.
 
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Quintillus

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Welcome to the forums! It's always good to have new players!

IIRC, siege weapons changed significantly between Vanilla and BTS - I think in Vanilla you could wipe out entire units with siege weapons alone? They're also very different than in Civ3.

Vassals are the one trait of Warlords that I always turn off. The "gotcha" when someone requests to be your vassal and draws you into war; the sudden anticlimactic end to a military campaign when your enemy vassalizes to someone else. It just doesn't add up to fun.

I've seen the Space Elevator be used to good effect, but it is somewhat niche, not least due to its geographic restrictions. But a nice thing about Noble, there's some freedom to build the wonders that are appealing, even if they aren't necessarily optimal.
 

rah

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IIRC, siege weapons changed significantly between Vanilla and BTS
Yeah they changed it but they didn't change how the AI used them, so you'd end up with the scary moment when a galley would show up next to a lightly defended city and would only unload siege units so the city was safe regardless. It always seemed silly that the devs didn't change that.
 
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R82

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Sorry for not posting earlier - I thought I shouldn't post before I had anything new to report. OK, I still don't have anything new to report, but I didn't want to leave the impression that I had forgotten about this thread. I'm currently trying, and failing, to win on one of those usually heavily forested but often strategic-resource poor maps created by the Planet Generator included in the BAT Mod.

By the way, if a mod or an admin sees this, is there perhaps some way to remove the vanilla tag from the title of this thread? I alwys play BTS now.

Moderator Action: Changed that for you. --LM

I'm not sure about building early game wonders. Isn't every turn's worth of production in every one of the few cities you have in the early game needed for expanding and defending your Civ?
 
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rah

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pyramids, great lighthouse, are worth the effort but the others are situational. I do like the great library and the mausoleum but sometimes you don't get them.
Oracle only if everyone else forgets about it. But I will build some of the national wonders while using them for fail gold.
 
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