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So many leftist on these boards?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by aapo, Jun 3, 2009.

  1. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus

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    So long as paying for a +5 'points' benefit in cancer care doesn't mean you have too little money in flu care so get a -10 'points' there.
     
  2. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Found the perfect quote by the typical conservative:

    "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No."
    -- actor Craig T. Nelson
     
  3. aapo

    aapo Chieftain

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    - And vice versa: customer might opt to not pay the price for whatever reason. Employers are just people. Employees are just people. Customers are just people. What makes you think there's inherent inequality in this triangle?

    Analogy in animal world: gazelles and lions in savannah. Unlike what nature documents might let you to believe, being a lion doesn't mean you can hunt any gazelle you come across. Gazelles are much faster than lions and lions really have to work hard to catch prey. Sneaking close to gazelle herd undetected is required. Weak gazelles and weak lions perish equally. That is the harmony of nature.

    Oh and before you reply saying that I said people and animals are just the same, or that the poor should die, theme of this example was to show that things aren't inequal.

    - It's just that people take lots of things for granted. Every section of pavement, public transportation, block of housing, lightbulb, conveniently placed store has taken lot of trial and error to perfect through history. You're born in world that is finished. It's not so uncommon to neglect the fact that everything needs people to work. Well done job requires not just any people, but intelligent and educated people. You can't just change the rules and think everything good would be like it is now, except the poor would be middle class and the rich would be middle class equally.

    If everything would be split evenly among people living in some area today, in hundred years all economical inequality would be back. That's because people don't strive to reach same goals in life. Don't say that you should be allowed to stay home if you wouldn't want your mailman to stay home in the morning. Double standard would be obvious.

    - Yes.
     
  4. Greizer85

    Greizer85 Emperor

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    If I made $1000000 a year, I would gladly pay 10% of it towards healthcare, even though if I made 10000 a year, I'd only have to pay 5%. Because, you know, I'd still be rich. Beyond a certain level, additional income doesn't add anything but frivolous things to your lifestyle; you don't need sportscars or mansions to survive or even to live comfortably.

    Yes, it's still technically wrong that the rich pay proportionally more. So what? You yourself said, Bei, that life is unfair sometimes - I'd rather it be unfair to the rich than to the poor. Since, you know, the rich can afford it. :eek: :goodjob:
     
  5. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus

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    :lol:

    He's lived by the goodwill of the state and thinks nobody helps him?
     
  6. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    You do realize that a lot of what the "king of beasts" eats is stolen from other animals like leopards and hyenas, right?
     
  7. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Sorry, I wasn't clear. I think that a government should take a strong role in medical research. Research is a huge public good: fund it as much as possible, I say. And since it's a public good, I ask that people spend time to learn the results of research, too.

    I was talking about providing a medical service. A few super-rich people were able to get their genomes read. We're now moving to the point where a middle-class person can have their genome read an interpretted, because of entrepreneurs and research funding. Eventually, it should just become a normally funded service.
     
  8. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    Oh, I see. So allow richer people the opportunity to gain higher standards of expensive health care if they so desire, but still provide the basic necessities in health care for the poorer. Hmm. I don't like the idea (rich get 'richer' through greater health care), but it does make sense, I 'spose, in an essentially free market system.
     
  9. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus

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    I say if you can afford private healthcare, you have the right to it.
     
  10. Kerozine

    Kerozine Deity

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    Those arguments suck.
     
  11. Richard Cribb

    Richard Cribb He does monologues

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    I am not sure if this is humour or that you just have a very twisted perspective regarding this, but the fact remains that the great majority of the regular posters here are stalwart supporters of capitalism. Most of them behave like a nun in a military camp if the word socialism is brought up. Hardly "many guys with very leftist economical views" then.

    It is just you.


    For some cocky young men there are simple explanations for everything. It would be funny if it wasn't so serious.
    But I guess I am way too "intelligent, caring and socially responsible" to comment any further on that.
     
  12. amadeus

    amadeus Serenity now!

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    I'm not sure what you mean by "low bar", but according to the Census Bureau, it seems the primary care provider for 83 million Americans is the United States government, or about 28% of the population. This is up from about 23% in 1987.

    As opposed to "he's rich, so he exploited somebody"? :lol:
     
  13. aapo

    aapo Chieftain

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    - I've heard about it. Anyway, this was a metaphor to show that there isn't a "king of beasts" in either animal world or human society. Every living animal is born of natural selection's winner and every sentient being has different strategy to survive.
     
  14. Richard Cribb

    Richard Cribb He does monologues

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    Yes.
    That is apparently not so simple to understand. Here at least.:lol:
     
  15. bigfatron

    bigfatron Emperor

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    This discussion is struggling to get beyond undergraduate economics.

    Free markets lead to deficits and surpluses too - in fact that is part of the definition of a totally free market. Activity will tend to the equilibrium level that provides the maximum profit (well, it will as long as we accept a long list of assumptions most of which don't apply in the real world, but that's another problem).

    That does not mean that everyone who wants to buy a sausage can buy a sausage, but that sausage production is stimulated to the level which maximises the sausage makers', suppliers' and vendors' profits. This may well be a level that means some, or even many, people, cannot afford to buy sausage.

    Markets are intensely fallible - undergrads learn that markets tend to equilibria, markets know best, etc, and then economics professors spend their time trying to teach post-grad students that pretty much all of what they learnt in undergrad studies is meaningless or wrong.

    You need to open your eyes, read some journals and think. The last year or more of credit crisis have occurred because the credit market fundamentally failed, by supplying a huge surplus of credit in the past, and it is now suffering a shortage of credit due to contraction of supply. These have clearly not been optimal behaviours for the economy or its participants (you and me).

    You could not have a more textbook example of the failure of a free market to provide an optimum, or even near optimum, outcome.

    Anyone who says that either governments or markets can be infallible is just proving their ignorance - they should be taken out to a public place and jeered at....

    BFR
     
  16. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus

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    Over the history of the market, it probably evens out eventually, but you get 'fluctuations' - the industrial revolution, the great depression etc.
     
  17. Angst

    Angst Rambling and inconsistent

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    You actually misunderstood the OP; he thinks that european economy = leftist.
     
  18. Arwon

    Arwon

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    What does that post have to do with Keynesianism, xarthaz? That's a really weak cop-out response.
     
  19. Earthling

    Earthling Deity

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    True, I strongly support capitalization, and nothing will probably change that.
     
  20. Arwon

    Arwon

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    You're using "mainstream" as a synonym for "wrong" aren't you?
     

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