So much negativity...

[Shinzon]

first time poster, but long time reader of civfanatics.

I've seen A LOT of negativity on the forums since CiV came out. Not just here, but other forums talking about it as well. I mean sure there are bugs, questionable things they added or took away, but it's a new CiV. BRAND NEW. They release patches you know. And expansions. Most of my issues with the game can be fixed with patches. And they already patched one of them.

Give them some time and the game will eventually be just as good and most definitely better than Civ4.

I can't tell you how much I've wanted this game. Now that it's here, I can't stop playing it. I am having so much fun.

 

[nargulok]

The game is good, but as I've read in other negative reviews and I think it is spot on is that, it could be a lot better.

There are certain design decisions apparent in this game that don't make sense.

The failures off the diplomacy system stand out.

The City State mechanics still need work.

Lack of a world builder on release.

Graphical glitches and imperfections like poor river graphics.

Is it as bad as Empire Total War, probably not, but I only have 26 hours in. It would seem that in today's economic environment, this is the type of product we can expect. I'm a software developer but I don't work in the gaming industry. I know that if this product were subject to the same standards that my industry is held to that it wouldn't be considered ready to release. I digress however as it does come down to standards. The gaming industry is completely reliant on getting real income and is not required to put out a top quality product. They can only do the best that they can with the budget that they have before the publisher says that's it, put it out so we recoup the money we've sunk into the product.

Empire Total war today is an excellent game and a lot of fun today but it took over a year after it's release to get to that point. I would guess that we may have to wait about 4 to 6 months for Civ 5 to reach it's full potential. An expansion will make it even better whenever that happens but of course we'll have to invest another 30 to 40 dollars to get the excellent product we were dreaming of when we imagined what Civ 5 would be.

 

[planetary]

Three main sources of negativity, near as I can tell:

1. Technical problems, like not being able to run the game at all, or frequent crashes. Causes actual rage.
2. Design departures from what was somehow expected, or hoped for. Causes nerd rage.
3. Completeness, or "finish", complaints. Often compared to mature Civ 4 + all its expansions. Hype is also a factor. Causes disappointment.

 

[devilhunterred]

Give them some time and the game will eventually be just as good and most definitely better than Civ4.

I didn't spend $50 on launch day purchasing a product, just to wait weeks, months or even years for mods/expansions to come out just so it can be a great game that it's supposed to be on day 1.

 

[tomppb]

nerd rage....

 

[nargulok]

Some people have taken their nerd rage a little too far but there are legitimate concerns about the game.

The first 10 hours of game play I had a blast, but now that I've got 26 hours in there are things that I wish were better.

I haven't even had war declared on me yet. I put whole rows of military units on other countries borders and they tell me they noticed I have forces on my borders so I say I'm just passing through but I never move them. I just sit there and nothing happens. They don't move their forces to their borders. Nothing. I guess the AI is waiting for me to just take their cities.

Civ 4, nations always declared war on me, so what gives, I would expect something to remain the same. What do I have to do to get a civilization to declare war on me when I'm taunting them?

I only know that I wish I was involved in the game design meetings for this game, or the play testers cause there are certain small things that should have made it into the game.

No religion in the game I can live with, and other things from civ 4.

I'm not complaining that the game isn't like civ 4.

Good example of a design decision that is small, at least when compared to the religion aspect. Cottages. More specifically, improvements that get better over time. Sure there is a lot of game tweaking but it is the perfect design decision for what Civ 5 is trying to accomplish. How do you not have that?

Also why take out the means to see the status of diplomatic relationships? That is so important if you enjoy playing diplomatically.

Really, I'm here because even the core components of Civ 5 aren't good enough. City State mechanics need work and diplomacy is a mess among other things.

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

I hated it. Unfortunately, steam has a no refund policy.

To all hoping things will get fixed on future patches, check Firaxis' history. The UI in 5 is making the Civ IV's UI seem a great one and we all know its flaws.

 

[NZV]

People dissatisfied with the product are more likely to speak out about it. Things have worked this way with games for as long as the internet has been around. The people enjoying it aren't coming to the forums to yell at things, they're busy playing the game and being sucked into the one-more-turn aspect of it.

Personally, I think the game has some really major flaws, but I still quite like it regardless. I've been having a lot of fun with it this week. Hopefully patches will do something to improve the AI, UI, and multiplayer features.

 

[Nefelia]

I didn't spend $50 on launch day purchasing a product, just to wait weeks, months or even years for mods/expansions to come out just so it can be a great game that it's supposed to be on day 1.

Welcome to the 21st century. Games are a lot more complex than they were a decade ago, and working out all the bugs and the polishing in-house is an unrealistic expectation. If you are unable to accept this, I would suggest you avoid purchasing complex games on launch day.

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

^Agreed. It's just silly expecting to get a good product for your hard earned money.

 

[knug]

I didn't spend $50 on launch day purchasing a product, just to wait weeks, months or even years for mods/expansions to come out just so it can be a great game that it's supposed to be on day 1.

If you bought civ V on launch day, that's exactly what you did.

 

[boredatwork]

I've seen A LOT of negativity on the forums since CiV came out.

Give them some time and the game will eventually be just as good and most definitely better than Civ4.

I can't tell you how much I've wanted this game. Now that it's here, I can't stop playing it. I am having so much fun.

Your logic is flawed - not everyone likes civilization for the same reasons therefore any change will innevitably make the game "better" than previous games for some but worse for others.

Alot of the negativity on the forums is from people for whom the design decisions have made it worse. While there is an unfortunate amount of "the sky is falling" going on, I equally see legitamate opinions as to why people are personally not enjoying the game dismissed as "can't handle change" when in reality we wanted change, just not necessarily in the fashion it was done. (and no I didn't care for either the religion or espionage as implemented in Civ4, and yes I think 1UPT and hexes were brilliant changes)

If you're enjoying Civ5 now then I'm happy for you - but don't dump on people for letting Firaxis know why they're not having fun - civilization has always been a great series because of the extraordinary freedom it gives people to "play the game their way" but how can Firaxis maintain that tradition if they're not prepared to at least listen to people whose "way" is not well catered to by the current rules?

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

Your logic is flawed - not everyone likes civilization for the same reasons therefore any change will innevitably make the game "better" than previous games for some but worse for others.

Alot of the negativity on the forums is from people for whom the design decisions have made it worse. While there is an unfortunate amount of "the sky is falling" going on, I equally see legitamate opinions as to why people are personally not enjoying the game dismissed as "can't handle change" when in reality we wanted change, just not necessarily in the fashion it was done. (and no I didn't care for either the religion or espionage as implemented in Civ4, and yes I think 1UPT and hexes were brilliant changes)

Thank you for expressing what has been going on in my mind.

 

[Abremms]

If you bought civ V on launch day, that's exactly what you did.

if you buy any game on launch day, that's exactly what you are doing. that's how the industry works. just be thankful its done by a company like Firaxis who will actually commit to supporting and improving their companies. a lot of developers will just push out the crappy product and wait a full development cycle to include any bug fixes in an expansion, if they even do that.

im not saying its a good thing, but that's the reality of the modern PC gaming industry.

I don't mind. i like seeing my game evolve over time based on community feedback. some people don't like that. for them, consoles are that way -->

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

if you buy any game on launch day, that's exactly what you are doing. that's how the industry works. just be thankful its done by a company like Firaxis who will actually commit to supporting and improving their companies. a lot of developers will just push out the crappy product and wait a full development cycle to include any bug fixes in an expansion, if they even do that.

im not saying its a good thing, but that's the reality of the modern PC gaming industry.

I don't mind. i like seeing my game evolve over time based on community feedback. some people don't like that. for them, consoles are that way -->

Ever heard of Blizzard?

 

[mike_cf]

It's very clear the Firaxis/2k decided that ciV should reach the casual/console crowd (graphics kid like, simplified gameplay) and that means the hardcore players, the veterans are feeling cast aside. 2k aims for big sales and probably they will get them, but in the process will transform the Civ franchise to appeal the modern, younger crowd. For the veterans this will mean the destruction of the core values of civ: complex strategy game for people who want to make their own world's history. I think everyone will scream when something they love is reduced to shiny trinkets.

In a nutshell, there is so much criticism because people want civ back. Not a different strategy game that resembles civ and has Sid Meier's Civilization slapped on it.

 

[Abremms]

Ever heard of Blizzard?

blizzard is the exception to the rule. they have enough money that they can afford ten (10!) year development cycles. You really cannot compare Blizzard to other software companies in this, as long as they have their cash cow (WoW), they can afford to polish a game for years after the main coding is done.

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

blizzard is the exception to the rule. they have enough money that they can afford ten (10!) year development cycles. You really cannot compare Blizzard to other software companies in this, as long as they have their cash cow (WoW), they can afford to polish a game for years after the main coding is done.

But that also means you can't dismiss people's expectations of polished products as "something that just doesn't exist in the PC gaming world".

 

[Abremms]

But that also means you can't dismiss people's expectations of polished products as "something that just doesn't exist in the PC gaming world".

i disagree. people absolutely expect polished products from blizzard BECAUSE they are the exception. if the entire industry had those resources and standards, they would not be notable.

if you are Ok with getting one game every 5 odd years, and only play blizzard games, then you will have unreasonable expectations of other companies. most PC gamers aren't like that though, they see more games. I buy far too many games, myself. I can tell you that I have not seen a single release in past 5 years (outside of the aforementioned exception, Blizzard) that did not receive numerous complaints at launch regarding its "half baked lack of polish". the good games are the ones that released with a strong base, and were properly supported post launch.

if you go out for steak 10 nights in a row and for 9 of those nights the steak is either undercooked, over cooked, or in some other way deficient, but on 1 night it is perfect, would you REALLY expect the 11th steak to be perfect as well?

 

[Ignorant Teacher]

if you go out for steak 10 nights in a row and for 9 of those nights the steak is either undercooked, over cooked, or in some other way deficient, but on 1 night it is perfect, would you REALLY expect the 11th steak to be perfect as well?

I would go to a different restaurant.