So Obama may not take troops out of Iraq

[silver 2039]

I like this position better than the previous one. His old idea was a recipe for collapse and civil war.

 

[Holycannoli]

Ok, NOW do people believe me when I say Obama is just a suit that's good at telling people what they want to hear? When he told people that he wanted to bring the troops home, that's exactly what everyone wanted to hear. Now it's being shown to be typical political rhetoric.

Too many people are still being charmed by what he says. He must have one of those magical voices, like Saruman or Gandalf.

I do prefer this new stance of his though. It's just that since he seemed very adamant about troop withdrawl earlier, and since I'm able to see past political rhetoric, he's only proving to me that he will say whatever will earn him the most support, even if it's a lie.

 

[JollyRoger]

since I'm able to see past political rhetoric, he's only proving to me that he will say whatever will earn him the most support, even if it's a lie.

What the heck are you talking about? You didn't even understand his position as publically stated since at least Septmber 2007. See can't see past what you failed to comprehend.

 

[Norseone]

Well its good to see politics hasnt really changed at all in the last year, still full of liars

 

[philippe]

at least the Americans started talking about the issues.

 

[Elrohir]

at least the Americans started talking about the issues.

Don't worry, we'll get back to the important issues of flagpins, "real" religion, and who is having black babies soon.

....Come to think of it, I remember hearing something about Obama having some babies with some black woman....hmm....possible scandal material.

 

[z_step18]

The paradox remains, that on one hand you kids more or less admit you are entranced by his speeches (for really, he did very little other than giving speeches), coupled with the admission that 'his speeches mean nothing', then, aren't you simply admitting that you were duped by Obama whispering sweet nothings into your ear? Are you kids at least recognizing that there is a probability that you could end up in the situation where you are both pregnant and dumped?

I do enjoy his speeches, and his speeches do mean something. All I said was that there was going to some slight changes in implementing his policies if he were to become president, and thats inevitable. I'm able to recognize that he isn't going to be able to go after everything he has spoken of, and thats not me being duped, its me accepting the situation that theres a whole lot of mess to clean and I'm going to be realistic about it.

Although its funny, because on the Iraq war, people criticized his policy of cut and run, and then once he reiterated his policy in more detail, he then got criticized for changing his position, as he wanted to pursue a responsible withdraw.

 

[Zarn]

I like this position better than the previous one. His old idea was a recipe for collapse and civil war.

It is not a matter of liking the new position. It is a matter of changing the cornerstone of his campaign.

 

[aronnax]

But...but...but...

You promised me!!!

 

[Ayatollah So]

Does the statement 'he can no more disown his pastor than his grandmother' coupled with his later action of disowning him,

Y'know, if my grandmother went on national TV and dissed me the way Wright dissed Obama, I'd disown her. Obama's mileage may vary...

 

[Merkinball]

And that is not how his position has been characterized... "Cut and run" and pulling the troops out never mentions his plan is a phased withdrawal dependent on circumstances with a target of 2010 at the earliest. You just quoted Obama's position as if its how the Repubs have been painting it, you realize that? - Berzerker

Dude, I got that straight from Obama's website You realize that?

 

[CheScott]

Linky



He says that he remains opposed to the reasons for the police action, but now he is backtracking on leaving so soon. I understand that leaving is a bad idea, even if you are opposed, but one of his nomination gaining positions is his opposition to having any troops there.

I will not be able to discuss this with you guys, since I'm leaving for Long Island for a few days. I'll catch you guys later.

In another thread, I outlined that the difference between Obama and McCain's Iraq stance is more language than anything.

I will summarize by saying that our presence in Iraq cannot be held at even pre-surge levels for much longer, our military is strained and in need of rebuilding and our politicians don't have the public support to argue the point, though it is moot.

Regardless of who wins and what happens in Iraq, our role will be that of support and advisory and little more within 18 months.

 

[joshhh]

In another thread, I outlined that the difference between Obama and McCain's Iraq stance is more language than anything.

I will summarize by saying that our presence in Iraq cannot be held at even pre-surge levels for much longer, our military is strained and in need of rebuilding and our politicians don't have the public support to argue the point, though it is moot.

Regardless of who wins and what happens in Iraq, our role will be that of support and advisory and little more within 18 months.

Oh really? So the US army will implode if they stay in Iraq?

Even with violence reaching its lowest levels and the surge successfully working? Haven't you realized public support is linear to how the war is going?

 

[CheScott]

Oh really? So the US army will implode if they stay in Iraq?

Even with violence reaching its lowest levels and the surge successfully working? Haven't you realized public support is linear to how the war is going?

*sigh* Yes, they will literally turn into a singularity and collapse unto themselves.

Of course they won't implode, but they will be cannibalizing themselves, and already are. Recruitment rates are the lowest they've been since Vietnam and their mid-level officers are drying up, Captains in particular. These are experienced commanders and are invaluable to the future of the military, this is resulting in a growing power gap. Asside from that, the more resources that we sink into Iraq, the less we have to go around for other things like national defense and our inevitable bombing of some other third world nation.

If public support were 'linear to how the war is going', then public support for the war would be at it's highest right now. However, the War is expensive and we've been footing the bill for quite a while.

But why don't you roll your eyes at me and believe whatever you prefer to be true, instead of considering that. =/

 

[Mr. Dictator]

i love this hypocracy.

people on the right complain that his immediate exit is stupid, then he changes his mind and act like it's for votes.

anyone REALLY think that saying, "we'll stay in iraq until things are done" is a popular vote right now?

but seriously kids, grow up and stop being partisan fecaltunnels.

 

[Patroklos]

You need to look up the definition of hypocracy, you're doing it wrong

The right is not "complaining" about Obama's new policy, but rather pointing out his hypocracy in changing his stance. He got the nomination by villifying the very position he now states is his, basically vindicating those who had that position in the first place.

Of course you know this, you are just trying to spin.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

And you're not?

"He got the nomination by villifying the very position he now states is his"

Is this true?

 

[z_step18]

You need to look up the definition of hypocracy, you're doing it wrong

The right is not "complaining" about Obama's new policy, but rather pointing out his hypocracy in changing his stance.

Sure they are, since Obama supporters in this thread have been grouped together as experiencing the "Obama-aid" and that those who support Obama are just walking zombies.

And it's not even hypocrisy, its just him refining his policies, which is not new. If he was previously for a phased withdrawal, and then he came out and said "I want to stay in Iraq indefinitely with no timetable for withdrawal", that would be hypocrisy.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Sure they are, since Obama supporters in this thread have been grouped together as experiencing the "Obama-aid" and that those who support Obama are just walking zombies.

Allthough it irked me in the beginning, I have to say I like this development. You can almost see the thought process involved.

If (argument) {
state(argument);
}
else {
printf("Obamaid");
}

 

[Patroklos]

"He got the nomination by villifying the very position he now states is his"

Is this true?

Are you serious? It is absoluelty true, anyone (including Hillary) who advocated anything less that immediate (his word) withdrawl on a timetable established regardless of circumstances was villified in speech after speech (to the point of hacking others words, ie the McCain's 100 year lie Obama himself repeated ad nauseum). He has now adopted the exact same position as McCain for all intents and purposes, and if you are a former Obama supporter who believe the BUSH THIRD TERM nonesense there is no reconciling this. You can say this alone does not sink him, but to pretend like JR is that this was always Obama's stance is ridicuouls.