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So Oda gave me all his cities...

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Xiao Xiong, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. Xiao Xiong

    Xiao Xiong Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2009
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    480
    After taking down Izzy and George I went after Oda, captured Kagoshima, Tokyo and Kyoto. I was massing impending doom on the doorstep of Osaka and he decided he'd had enough, and surrendered offering me every single thing he's got. His back was broken, but it was still going to take me a lot of turns to capture his remaining cities, so I accepted.

    Well, he still had eight cities left, so he offered me that.

    I was doing OK on the happiness front before that.. I had digested around 10 captured cities and was managing to be only around -7 unhappiness, with various things in the works to try and fix that.

    Now I'm -70. I think I will try.. because.. well, Osaka is the last enemy city left on my entire continent now. But wow, -70 is a lot of unhappiness. I guess I will be fighting off rebels for the next 20 turns.

    What to do?

    I'm inclined to say, I'm so far in the hole, it can't get any deeper, annex them all, and start building courthouses. Should I have liberated the city states he owned? It's not like doing that would put me in positive territory, I'd still be in this hole, just probably -40 or -50 instead of -70.

    No idea.

    Maybe I should raze them all?
     
  2. YetiHunter84

    YetiHunter84 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
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    Location:
    Australia
    Had the exact same situation against Oda last game (archipelago, king), although I got through a few more cities before he capitulated and only had a four city hit - ended up at about -40. I was surprised at how quickly happiness recovered actually. All my puppets started building happiness buildings as soon as they came out of resistance. I was positive within about a dozen turns, maybe a few more.

    The problem with taking a massive peace offering is that you get the cities' full population, doubling both the happiness hit and the time it takes to get them out of resistance. Sometimes I find it's better to take a bit longer on a hard-slog conquest.

    Did you get much gold out of him (ie, for buying courthouses)? Or any new repeated luxuries?
     
  3. Gort

    Gort Emperor

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    You might be at -70 happiness now, but the moment you get courthouses up that's going to skyrocket.
     
  4. NotSure

    NotSure King

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    Jul 21, 2011
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    712
    Until they fix the city tile bug, I will only keep cities I take by force. Cities you receive in peace deals have populations that are way too high, no production from the city tile, and no food from the city tile to work a trade posted hill (see MadDjinn's recent game). If I had to take them, I'd sell them asap and then take the ones I really wanted later. I almost always liberate CS. The only exception would be if I was sure they wouldn't stay allied and they had a strategic resource I really needed.
     
  5. Xiao Xiong

    Xiao Xiong Prince

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    I have seen other cases where I had tiles that weren't working properly. I had a game awhile back where I had a coastal city with some fish, I built a lighthouse there, and then noticed it didn't make any difference whether or not I worked the fish. I didn't get the food from it. In another case I ran a settler right up against an AI's borders in order to get a natural wonder inside my border. I forget which. But again, I didn't get the benefit from working it--though I did piss off the civ.

    There really are some bugs. Hope they are fixed soon!
     
  6. snoochems

    snoochems Prince

    Joined:
    May 25, 2004
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    432
    Never noticed that. I guess I don't micro well enough once I get to that complete-domination stage of the game. Pretty bug.

    Anyone want to make a wage on it getting fixed in the next patch?
     
  7. avdale

    avdale Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
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    60
    Some suggestions would be.

    -Raze some of the less important cities after selling off all the buildings inside them
    -Sell some of the cities to A.I's with too much money.

    Also liberating city states is normally a good idea. It autosecures a U.N vote and you can probably keep them for the rest of the game outside of Deity A.I's with squillions of gold.
     
  8. NotSure

    NotSure King

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    It was fixed once and I didn't notice it was broken again until someone pointed it out in a similar thread. I suppose it wouldn't be that big of a deal under the right circumstances, but if the AI dumps 8 of those under-achievers on you, it could be way more trouble than it's worth. I'd torch or sell them all, probably. There are still way too many bugs like the city tile bug, the freedom finisher bug, numerous graphical glitches, etc., etc.
     
  9. Pook

    Pook Bloviating

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    Concur with previous comments from YetiHunter84 and Gort. I haven't broken triple digits yet, but on King level I was once at -90 happiness from a similar situation. In under 20 turns, I had happiness all the way up to -18, stopping further rebel outbreaks. Hang in there Xiao Xiong, keeping all those cities is feasible. That said, if a city is in a bad location, you may do better to torch it, after selling off its buildings. "Always remember to pillage BEFORE you burn."
     
  10. Gort

    Gort Emperor

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    Yeah, there's currently a bug with courthouses where they eliminate not only the unhappiness from the city being a captured one, but ALSO the normal happiness hit for possessing a city (3 happiness).

    Occupied cities actually end up happier than cities you personally built, bizarrely enough. People in Civ just love to be conquered, I suppose!
     
  11. Soryn Arkayn

    Soryn Arkayn Prince

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    You always have to watch out for the "city-bomb". It's always a pleasant surprise when the AI begs for peace, but it's easy to be entranced by the gold and luxuries they're offering, and forget to scroll through the whole list to see that they're giving you cities too.

    When you capture a city, you're warned what will happen if you annex or puppet it. But when the AI offers you cities for peace, it's must more difficult to calculate its effect on your civ's Happiness.

    If Unhappiness is less than 20, you should be able to manage the Unhappiness caused by the extra cities. But if it's worse than 20, you need to act immediately, otherwise you'll have to deal with rebellions. Return some of the cities or give them to another civ; but before you do, demolish the cities' buildings and raze the tile improvements for Gold.

    If I can't restore Happiness with buildings or luxuries, I'll raze cities. Later I might build my own city on the ruins, which is much easier to manage than an occupied city.
     
  12. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    Actually an undocumented feature. Unlikely to be removed as people just razed and resettled to avoid maintenance on courthouse before it was discovered.

     
  13. Gort

    Gort Emperor

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    Well, it's a trade-off, isn't it. You can keep the size 20 city you just conquered and put up with having a courthouse to pay for, or you can raze it and have to slog that city up again from size 1.

    Keep in mind that autocracy has a social policy that makes courthouses produce 3 happiness each, which would negate the removal of this bug.
     
  14. headcase

    headcase Limit 1 Facepalm Per Turn

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    I think they should remove the extra courthouse happiness but lower the maintenance by 1 or something, and maybe add a new happiness building a little after the Coliseum that has high maintenance, for those who want to trade gold for happiness.
     
  15. The_Quasar

    The_Quasar King

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    Razing a size 20 (conquered) city is going to take 20 turns anyway, and will take a long time to rebuild, but it would be able to build a courthouse quickly, and become useful quickly too. Either way you're going to take quite a happiness hit for 20 turns, but it'll be worth it once it's annexed.

    The best thing is to have enough cash available to buy Courthouses as and when you need them. That makes conquering a lot less stressful! ;)

    As far as the extra courthouse happiness is concerned, it's a compromise, and like most compromises, it can look both good and bad... imho, it's probably best balanced as it is now.
     

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