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So sometimes I go Honor

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Seoul, Oct 28, 2015.

  1. bcaiko

    bcaiko Emperor

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    Dushku - I find a domination game on a Small Continents Plus map on Huge very rewarding. Gives you a taste of land and sea combat. I usually bump up to 13 AIs and 26 city states just to crowd things up even more.

    I agree with you if you're on a Pangea style map. But if you need to cross ocean to win, you're going to need science. Trying to trapse into a snowballing Ethiopia in the heart of another continent after he's been living a lovefest lifestyle and enjoying the cozy research agreements of his neighbors - that can't be done without some technological catch up.

    There are several Civs that will cause this kind of domination problem on a true continents map. Though, much to my irritation, Ethiopia popped up in every game I played for like a year. :mad:
     
  2. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    Sadly this is not the case unless they changed it recently

    This however is true and especially important since Knights don't get Cover. Also take into account that Logistics and Blitz stack for 3 attacks per turn.

    It's a fine starting tree.

    People are sleeping on the Landsknecht -> Lancer upgrade. This is great for various reasons:

    1) Lancers do not have access to Cover, Pikes however get it, so you can create Cover 2 Lancers
    2) Since Lancers will be used for Pillaging primarily Cover helps a great deal
    3) You can Pillage between three and four tiles per turn
    4) This way the unit pays back very fast, esp if you plunder a Trade Route
    5) You can buy Landsknechts, move them on roads, only have 0.3 of a move left and still upgrade, which helps with capturing a city if you slip and let your capture unit die
    6) The bonus gold for capturing cities Promotion is kept on upgrading
     
  3. Dushku

    Dushku Prince

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    You can't get Cover or March without first taking promotions that will become useless later though.

    In my limited experience with Honor thus far, it too has similar characteristics to Tradition and Liberty in that the value of taking them later makes them less effective. Both the opener and the human Monument policies are strong early on. And I love how (as I think consentient has pointed out) opening Honor, you can kind of ignore what your opponents are doing.
     
  4. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    please play and record the Huns ICL map, I would love to see how you fare :)
     
  5. Dushku

    Dushku Prince

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    I had a monster start as Germany on my first real Immortal game with the intention of playing Honor domination. I've released a video of the first ~40 turns here. If the pros could take a look and offer any advice on how I could be improving, it would be very much appreciated.

    Here's a preview of what you can see in the video: image link
     
  6. consentient

    consentient Domination!

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    Nice video and conversation style. Can't see anything wrong with your game. You're big into tributes, which don't play so well on Immortal and Deity if you want to maintain trading partners.

    I;m more of the style where I DoW the first militaristic or religious CS I meet who are viable, and use them as a worker/XP farm, and if the DoW comes before you meet the AI, they don't know about it, so no penalty. It depends on when you're starting war, but if you're starting at crossbows, that's 90 turns of improved likelihood of DoF which make a big difference for trading lux for lump sums. Hard to measure that against tributes, really.

    All in all I'd say you look comfortable on Immortal.

    [EDIT: T35ish - I'd have bought a Granary in capital. When it hits 5 pop, you need either 10 or 19 turns (can't tell cuz of video quality) to grow. That's pretty meh. Better to pump the capital. Honor likes early growth for early Machinery.]
     
  7. Dushku

    Dushku Prince

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    Thank you. The problem is that free military and in turn free Settlers means I'm not really learning anything this game. :lol:

    I actually made a video once called Farming City States where I talked about warring the first viable city state you meet, preferably before meeting everybody else. I'll try and be more consistent with this in the future (especially since I'm really enjoying Honor).

    I'm not normally this into tributes. But with all this free military, being surrounded by city states that aren't getting protection, and having a low production capital, it seemed like a great way to get expands up.

    To that end, do you think buying a Granary would've been a better idea than saving for that 2nd Settler in order to grab a 2 Salt 2nd expand? At the end of the video, I was sort of planning on building another Scout and then a Granary in the capital and making my next purchases tiles in 2nd expo as well as Library there for quicker NC. I was wondering if you could elaborate more on how you'd value the Granary buy your recommend vs these plans.

    Thank you for the feedback! I'd say you and peddroelm are the ones most directly responsible for the approach I'm taking with this game.

    [EDIT]
    I was rewatching the video and I think I see what you mean now. When Berlin hit 5 pop, even working all my best growth tiles, it was 19 turns before another citizen. I've never thought before to make decisions like buying a Granary based on that. I still look forward to your thoughts of that vs the 2nd Settler.
     
  8. Phukit

    Phukit Warlord

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    AS germany im not so sure i would worry too much about a 2nd expo if you already have a good sized military from barb camps.Very likely going for an early CB rush

    2 city NC then im just going straight blitzkrieg.Im more than happy to let the AI with their massive bonuses build my expos for me.
     
  9. Sclb

    Sclb Emperor

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    I think 3 city CB is better as long as you can hook up enough luxuries because you would hit unit cap quite easy if you only had 2 cities, especially if you got lucky with worker/army captures.
     
  10. Phukit

    Phukit Warlord

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    2 cities with a total pop of 8-10 can support more than enough units to take your first cap with an early rush. Worst case scenario you suffer a small production loss for a few turns no big deal.

    In Dushku's example video at T40 we already have 5 archers,2 warriors 1 axeman and 1 spearman as far as i can tell.

    This is more than enough to overwhelm Venice to the south with a def of 15

    I would also guess that those units could all have been brought to bear on venice around T35 which might suggest that its def would be slightly lower then
     
  11. Dushku

    Dushku Prince

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    But does could take mean should take? Venice is king of trade routes and only appears to have one valid trade route target. Dropping a city next to him would likely mean instant trade route to me and from me. Isn't that science boost at ~t50 worth preserving? Also, he probably only has the one city right now, so I'd be taking on the wiping out warmonger penalty right away. Do you feel these considerations are worth not taking Venice so soon?

    Also, I kind of agree (but am no expert) that 3rd city will be very helpful towards the unit cap, which I've been tickling all game.
     
  12. Sclb

    Sclb Emperor

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    Depends if there is another better target. If there is, I would not take Venice first, due to both warmonger hate and potential trade routes. Just watch for his MoV and you can DoW if it looks like he's going for CS. Venice is so weak there is no reason to take him out early, plus he builds lots of wonders if you let him live and you can conquer him with wonders.
     
  13. Phukit

    Phukit Warlord

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    is that rome to the NW? Either way with the army you have this early i am going to war asap.and the sooner the better since we have not met all other civs yet.

    I would rather spend my hammers building units than building settlers especially when im opening honor.
     
  14. Dushku

    Dushku Prince

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    Well that's kind of a problem. Here's what Rome looks like:
    Spoiler :
    Only 3 tiles wide to approach from and a hill, with no visibility yet between us. Almost looks like it would be a lot easier if I had some naval support. but I'll have no coastal cities. Venice is coastal, but south coast vs north coast, so I don't know if ice would contain me. My plan is after the Caravan is finished, build another Scout to head west to get a clearer picture of what's nearby. Or I could take an Archer I have that's a little to the west and head that way since it seems mostly flat land thus far. What do you think?
     
  15. Phukit

    Phukit Warlord

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    More so at deity less so at Immortal.
     
  16. Phukit

    Phukit Warlord

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    Looks pretty easily assailed to me,4 tiles to set up archers with melees upfront,no awkward terrain.
     
  17. Phukit

    Phukit Warlord

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    who was the 4th civ to the SE?
     
  18. Dushku

    Dushku Prince

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    I don't know where his other cities are/will be. I guess with my newness to conquest, I'd feel more comfortable having more maneuvering room.

    To the southeast is Siam and they've taken Goddess of Protection.
     

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