So, ummm... What's Kupe's Deal, anyway?

[Navelgazer]

This is largely a musing, but I'm curious whether I've just had an idiosyncratic experience here or if this is a widely understood thing...

I've been playing regularly enough and long enough now to have just a visceral reaction to seeing Kupe pop up on screen. I'm sure that part of this is because I like to rely on getting era score from World's First Circumnavigation and Meeting Everyone First, which Kupe will often be able to grab with some ease, and also because he'll start to hate you if you clear a single forest for a campus district, but I just ran into something I don't think I'd ever seen before (and I've played almost 4,000 hours of civ6 according to Steam.)

I met Kupe between Turn 29 and 30. As Turn 30 starts, I go to send him a delegation, but he already had a dislike of me and refused it. Now, I've had interactions like meeting Jayavarman on turn 16 and him denouncing me on turn 18 for not developing enough faith (this happened last night in fact) but he still accepted the delegation offered at the first available opportunity. I'm really not sure I've ever had an AI leader just start off immediately disliking me in this fashion before. I'm not settled within even 10 tiles of him. I at first thought he must be angry about me clearing land for a holy site, but no, I completed the Mining tech on the turn after meeting him and hadn't even had a chance to clear anything yet. I'm Owls of Minerva, but he has no Secret Society yet.

Playing Tokugawa on King level, BTW. So am I just lucky that I haven't run into instant hatred more often? Or is Kupe just that much of a dingus? Or both?

 

[Zaarin]

I think there is some randomization in AI personalities' initial impression of you, but I don't think I've ever seen them refuse a delegation the very turn you meet them. I don't think this behavior is specific to Kupe, though.

 

[Navelgazer]

Even more fun, because I can't give him a delegation, the only explanation I have for his attitude towards me is "+2 - Unknown Reason."

 

[InsidiousMage]

Sounds like it might be a bug. Try reloading an autosave and see if you can send him a delegation again.

 

[AntSou]

I met Kupe between Turn 29 and 30. As Turn 30 starts, I go to send him a delegation, but he already had a dislike of me and refused it. Now, I've had interactions like meeting Jayavarman on turn 16 and him denouncing me on turn 18 for not developing enough faith (this happened last night in fact) but he still accepted the delegation offered at the first available opportunity. I'm really not sure I've ever had an AI leader just start off immediately disliking me in this fashion before.

Do you usually play on Prince and increased difficulty in this game?

I play Immortal and it's unusual for them to accept delegations the moment I meet them (and even less so if I wait a couple of turns).

 

[Navelgazer]

Do you usually play on Prince and increased difficulty in this game?

Nah, always on King or Emperor. Good to know that this happens at higher difficulty levels though, at least.

 

[Finvola]

They do refuse delegations on higher difficulties. I play on Deity and have had civs refuse delegations upon meeting them. It doesn't happen that often but I have had it happen. I think the last refusal I had was from Mali, but then he offered me one on the next turn. I was like "Alrighty then!"

 

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

It sometimes seems to make a difference if They meet You on "their" turn, vs You meeting Them on your turn. On higher levels they will often have a -5 to -7 modifier against you, so that you can't send a delegation the turn after you meet. My thinking is that when They meet You on their turn (your prior turn), when you first get a chance to send a delegation it is already the 2nd turn of knowing you. So no bueno.

 

[Daniel Boone]

I have noticed that lately, the AI will sometimes refuse delegations on the turn you meet them. Maybe something was changed in the most recent update?

 

[Ordnael]

I rarely send delegation on initial AI meeting, I don't want to lock them into friendly ties no more! If they turn green on me on their own than I might reinforce their atitude with a delegation.

 

[Ufish]

When you first met anyone in your turn(I mean,you know,the AI start their turns after you),a delegation would never be refused.So that's a useful trick,when it's lower than -5,go to send a delegation and you won't be condemned."+2 - Unknown Reason." shows that you met one of his agendas.By improving the Diplomatic Visibility,you could see what the reason is.

 

[mdl5000]

He also hates anyone who harvests any resources, if I remember correctly.

 

[steveg700]

The modifier varies based on the manner of contact. If you discover them with a scout, it's better than meeting them with a warrior.

Not sure how exchanging info on capitals influences diplomacy.

 

[pokiehl]

The modifier varies based on the manner of contact. If you discover them with a scout, it's better than meeting them with a warrior.

Not sure how exchanging info on capitals influences diplomacy.

Is this really true? I’ve heard it speculated a lot but I’ve never seen evidence for it in the game’s files and anecdotally, I’ve never noticed any pattern like that.

 

[Zaarin]

Is this really true? I’ve heard it speculated a lot but I’ve never seen evidence for it in the game’s files and anecdotally, I’ve never noticed any pattern like that.

Same. I've heard it said but never seen any evidence to support it, including anecdotally in my own games. As best as I can tell without having probed the files or having done extensive testing, it seems to be randomized.