The fascists, who were running under the banner of 'unite the right', are agitating to strip liberty from those other groups.
So, was Trump right about "violence on many sides" after all?
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The fascists, who were running under the banner of 'unite the right', are agitating to strip liberty from those other groups.
civver_764
Deity
Which liberties, specifically? Were all the people at the Unite the Right rally doing this, or just some?
The "unite the right' fascists are attacking all liberty. They are fascists, after all.
civver_764
Deity
You're dodging my questions. Were all the people at the "unite the right" rally fascists? How do you know? Did everyone there want to attack "all liberty"? Again, how do you know?
innonimatu
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The "violence" of the "antifa" is rather pathetic, it seems to me. So I think Trump was simply making up something to link with the political ideas of his base.
In fact his statement is quite coward because there are plenty of sides to your politics and only some few are outright violent, and he avoided mentioning which he believed were violent. Did he speak up when violence was used to attempt to crush protests against pipelines? No, he supported and perhaps even ordered that violence. Don't mistake your president for a honest man. Even if he is usually more honest in peaking his mind that your typical politician of either big party.
In fact his statement is quite coward because there are plenty of sides to your politics and only some few are outright violent, and he avoided mentioning which he believed were violent. Did he speak up when violence was used to attempt to crush protests against pipelines? No, he supported and perhaps even ordered that violence. Don't mistake your president for a honest man. Even if he is usually more honest in peaking his mind that your typical politician of either big party.
civver_764
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Still dodging. Again - how did you make the determination that these people are fascists?
Spoiler :
innonimatu
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Yeah, and guess where they got the idea. Hint: your police does worse as a routine...
civver_764
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Oh please. There are some bad cops so that gives them license to go around and attack people for being Trump supporters? That doesn't make any sense.
innonimatu
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Perhaps it gives the the experience to go from sit-ins in parks like it happened during the occupy things, to copying the violence in these more recent wave of conflict?
that's the problem with violence: when used successfully against a target, its survivors may come out with their idea that it is a winning strategy. Hard to blame them, even if the different circumstances make that jump dangerously wrong.
that's the problem with violence: when used successfully against a target, its survivors may come out with their idea that it is a winning strategy. Hard to blame them, even if the different circumstances make that jump dangerously wrong.
civver_764
Deity
Why are you trying to excuse violence? You honestly don't think they bear responsibility for their reprehensible behavior because some police officer was mean to them? I've had some bad encounters with the police, yet somehow I still know perfectly well not to attack people. Is Antifa full of toddlers?
innonimatu
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I try to understand a lot of things. Seeing that as "trying to excuse" is a bad idea, but it's your country to wreck.
civver_764
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You said "Hard to blame them". I disagree, it is very easy to blame them. The reason things have gotten out of hand is precisely because of the crazy double standards we have in this country with regards to left-wing vs right-wing violence. Right-wingers know that nobody is going to try to "understand" if they start attacking people, and so they don't act out. We need to hold left-wingers to the same standard, or the violence is going to keep getting worse. Left-wing rallies consistently break out into riots and people getting attacked. This is a huge problem and these people act like spoiled children. That is simply not the case for right-wing rallies, and for good reason.
Yeah, I blame both sides. If so many White Nationalists hadn't been so willing to show solidarity with KKK members and people waving the Nazi symbol (out of some type of solidarity? Who shows up to a rally, sees himself surrounded by the scum of the White Pride movement, and then decides to show solidarity???), then it would have just been a shouting match. There are definitely 'both sides' of people who decided to swing first. And many more who'd been rather okay with swinging second.
Lotsa people there were rarin' to swing fists for against their political opponents. And violence happened. I've been to enough protests to know that there are bad seeds. I've been verbally knifed by enough lefties to know that they're full-bore on the partisan end of things.
I also cannot figure out how one could march in solidarity with Nazis. How'd they feel welcome at the rally?
Trump has a lot to blame. He fed the rabid alt-right all through the campaign. And, the 2Aers have been stroking their guns for a long time. It's unsurprising that there are oodles of people who think they need to be met with force.
Lotsa people there were rarin' to swing fists for against their political opponents. And violence happened. I've been to enough protests to know that there are bad seeds. I've been verbally knifed by enough lefties to know that they're full-bore on the partisan end of things.
I also cannot figure out how one could march in solidarity with Nazis. How'd they feel welcome at the rally?
Trump has a lot to blame. He fed the rabid alt-right all through the campaign. And, the 2Aers have been stroking their guns for a long time. It's unsurprising that there are oodles of people who think they need to be met with force.
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Oerdin
Deity
Now that is an outright lie.
Perfection
The Great Head.
How so?
Oerdin
Deity
Antifa clearly uses violence in an attempt to marginalize anyone who disagrees with them. Hell, it is their standard tactic to first attack all the reporters because so many of the criminal co-conspirators have been put in jail based upon film from the news media.
Yes, they are nothing but a violent hate group push "anarcho-communism" and as they and their Black Bloc brothers say "liberals will get the bullet too". If you want to side with thugs committing pilitical violence then do so but stop pretending it is in any way virtuous because they really are just as bad as the white nationalists. Violence is violence.
Yes, they are nothing but a violent hate group push "anarcho-communism" and as they and their Black Bloc brothers say "liberals will get the bullet too". If you want to side with thugs committing pilitical violence then do so but stop pretending it is in any way virtuous because they really are just as bad as the white nationalists. Violence is violence.
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
I Blame Obama and Clinton's Emails
Looks like the Anarchist are now being investigated, but then again Green peace was labelled a terrorist organization under Bush administration so I will take that with a grain of salt.
If they instigate hatred and violence then by all means they should be stopped and gaoled.
Berzerker
Deity
are the white nationalists attacking other people's protests?
civver_764
Deity
Indeed. This is an important point that most people are afraid to make, because they don't want to be lumped in with the "ebil nazis". Despite how disgusted most people are with the idea of White nationalism, it's clear just how peaceful they are when compared with Antifa and other far-left groups. And people on the left are desperate for white nationalist violence, because that is the whole basis of what they are doing by going around and shutting down people's speech. That's why the media focused so hard on this supposed "white supremacist terrorist attack", even though it was anything but, because finally they had something to fit their narrative. It is very telling to see how much the media hyped up the Charlottesville car cash vs. the terrorist attack in Spain which happened a few days later.
The idea that right-wing ideas are in themselves a form of a violence is a very common trope of the Left. And the Left controls our education and our media. We have been in a constant shift leftward for at least 50 years now. This is why we are so much more repulsed at the idea of a neo-nazi compared to a communist, despite the fact that so many more millions of people have been killed under Communist regimes. This is why we are taught endless tales about the Holocaust, but learn virtually nothing about the Holodomor. This is why it is so much more damaging for Trump to be called a Nazi than it was for Obama to be called a Communist. Do you remember a single instance of Obama disavowing Communist organizations or other far-left groups? I certainly don't. Meanwhile Trump has been forced time and time again to denounce far-right organizations.
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