So What Happened British Empire?

[Daily Barrage]

Firstly, I don't consider Civ to be a simulation of: history, warfare, civilization, etc... I just consider it to be a strategy game with its own context. So historical innacuracies, etc, don't bother me.

But out of interest why did they exclude the British Empire and include the English Empire?

I'm fairly sure the British Empire was the largest empire in history. OK, you could argue that in Elizabeth's time the British Empire did not technically exist. But Victoria and Churchill are certainly British Empire leaders.

Is the reason for English, and not British, inclusion just the general ignorance that exists in the US about England, Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland being individual countries. You know, where they equate England as being Britain?

 

[Soneji]

Britain sucks the yoke out of the devils arse thats why..

Edit: Also some argue that Scotland/Ireland are represented by the celts.

 

[onedreamer]

I'm fairly sure the British Empire was the largest empire in history.

Not really because it is way more correct, when you make statistics on this, to consider human knowledge and technologies of the time taken into consideration.

Is the reason for English, and not British, inclusion just the general ignorance that exists in the US about England, Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland being individual countries. You know, where they equate England as being Britain?

If this would be true, there would be a British Empire in all effects called English Empire. But take the city list for example: it's only english. Same goes for Russia and if I'm not wrong even Rome in Civ4.

 

[Rusty Edge]

Sometimes I think they did it for the sake of argument-

You know, so the "English speakers" could have all of these debates about the differences between Wessex, Northumbria, England, the UK, Great Britain, The Commonwealth, and the E.U.

Then of course there will be those that argue this or that entity is too recent , too unaccomplished, or existed for too short a time to meet their concept of a Civ.

If they included more of these incarnations , there would be more protests about why Civ X on the European Continent isn't included at all, while the Isle of Britain has a handful of leaders.


It's a damned if you do, and damned if you don't/ choose and perish dilema.

 

[sw99]

Not really because it is way more correct, when you make statistics on this, to consider human knowledge and technologies of the time taken into consideration.

Spoken like a true ro.. Italian

 

[Spearthrower]

I changed my game to British Empire a long time ago with flag. There's very little valuable argument I've seen to support the "English" appelation.

 

[sw99]

I'd be fine with it being called the British Empire but I don't know if the welsh or scottish would really feel that much better about it, they tend to associate british with english anyway. The scots (I don't know about the welsh contribution) were a great asset in our empire building days, largely as a willing and skilled soldiery, shipbuilders and many great minds and inventors but they were still dwarfed by the english population so it's not toooo far fetched to call it the english empire. (i'm no english nationalist, my parents are irish and welsh).

 

[Yaype]

Is the reason for English, and not British, inclusion just the general ignorance that exists in the US about England, Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland being individual countries. You know, where they equate England as being Britain?

Aren't all of those places English, which is the same thing as British?

Every conversation seems to go back to Americans' ignorance of the world sooner or later. This one just did it sooner.

 

[sw99]

Aren't all of those places English, which is the same thing as British?

Every conversation seems to go back to Americans' ignorance of the world sooner or later. This one just did it sooner.

Lol? I'm not sure if you're being highly ironic or just truly ignorant if you think scotland, wales and northern ireland are english And also English is NOT the same as British.

 

[GeneralMatt]

I personally would enjoy having the British, that way it would cover us Canadians also (As many of us said we would happy to be represented that way) it would cover Australia, New Zealand..

And it was I think the first indisputable world empire (Opposed to say the Romans, Mongols, Greeks etc) to be build primarily on the economic level. Only near the end was there a little more 'Empire for Empires sake'.

And as sw99 said, the Scottish helped greatly, it was really only after the Union of 1707 that Great Britain really started to flourish. Economically and otherwise..

 

[Bast]

It is the British Empire when I play Queen Victoria. Look!

 

[Soneji]

British Empire under the St Georges cross.. sounds about right.

Who would really want the Butchers Apron in the game anyway?

Hardly a highlight of civilization, quite the opposite.

The English wanted an empire, however they ended up with an empire that they didn't really want.

 

[Soneji]

I'd be fine with it being called the British Empire but I don't know if the welsh or scottish would really feel that much better about it, they tend to associate british with english anyway. The scots (I don't know about the welsh contribution) were a great asset in our empire building days, largely as a willing and skilled soldiery, shipbuilders and many great minds and inventors but they were still dwarfed by the english population so it's not toooo far fetched to call it the english empire. (i'm no english nationalist, my parents are irish and welsh).

I would tend to argue that if it were not for that Scottish contribution, particularly in the field of battle, the atlas would not have been anywhere near as pink as it once was.

 

[sabo]

Aren't all of those places English, which is the same thing as British?

Every conversation seems to go back to Americans' ignorance of the world sooner or later. This one just did it sooner.

They are all separate countries yaype, Think of England as part of the UK and the UK as a group of united countries.

 

[Bast]

British Empire under the St Georges cross.. sounds about right.

Who would really want the Butchers Apron in the game anyway?

Hardly a highlight of civilization, quite the opposite.

The English wanted an empire, however they ended up with an empire that they didn't really want.

 

[Soneji]

Care to argue differently other than post some silly smilies?

Look at the mess they left India in after their hasty departure, the slavery trade in Africa and other misseries, Highland clearances.. the English do not have such a rosy history imo. Your own continent as well...

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

^^^Yeah, but that makes it impossible for pre-optics tech trading ;-P

 

[onedreamer]

Spoken like a true ro.. Italian

if you read my posts you'll find that I'm probably the only italian on these forums that doesn't feel a little bit roman.
But I do admire romans for what they have achieved and what they have left to us (us meaning the western world).

 

[sw99]

I don't think there's anything wrong with feeling proud about the romans as an italian, no more than me feeling proud over british achievements - at best they were my great grandfathers generation achievements!

I was just teasing you because you basically said the british achievements weren't so impressive when you take into account how much more knowledge/advancements we had behind us, which is true to an extent, but then in another way the british achievements were just as impressive or more impressive because we were on a more level playing field than the romans were, we had the whole of western europe on the same tech level as us.

 

[sabo]

I don't think there's anything wrong with feeling proud about the romans as an italian, no more than me feeling proud over british achievements - at best they were my great grandfathers generation achievements!
.

And Americans like me are proud of the Greeks, who influenced Rome, who influenced Byzantines and Europe, who influenced America..