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So, what's rocking in your teepee, Hiawatha?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by gozpel, May 30, 2011.

  1. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

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    It's a weird game on Immortal. I'm Songhai.

    I build the NC about turn 45, get the free settler and send him southwest.

    My scout have been looking at the progress of the Iro-American war that started around turn 20. They made peace and started off again on turn 36. Make peace 4 turns later? He then declares on England to his east.

    Hiawatha is friendly with me, but I see some of his units starting moving north, where there is nothing but me. A fair walk, like 12 turns but he adds more units, so all in all there are 7 warriors and 2 spears going north. Suspicious...nah? :crazyeye:

    Meanwhile I learn IW and start a settler, already have 4 warriors and another one coming soon. The settler is done before the main assault and sent to a 6-iron spot where he will settle on top of it. I lose 2 warriors but chopping gives me 3 more, and I clear out the 9-unit attack and leaves me with 5. No more coming from south, so I sell all my luxes and upgrade to swords.

    He asks for peace and wants 300 gold and 12gpt, no deal. My swords walk down there and take an almost undefended city and kill his whole army on the rebound. He gives peace for a bit of gold and gpt. Fine.

    Here I notice, he is fighting America again and they are exchanging units every turn, but they still keep on coming. He makes peace finally with Washington and then declares on me again! But, sorry Hiawatha, this time I have 5 longswords and they kill the 20-unit!!! surge from below, only warriors, archers and spears.

    Again he wants straight up peace, no way and I take his Capitol and second best city.
    He pays me 2gpt and 111 gold or something. All what he have now is 2 ICE-cities.

    He declares on England, Mongols and India in that order and denounce America who declares on him shortly after.

    Mind you, it's 1700AD now and he still fight America with his pikes. And he declared war after war on the other AI's, nothing stopping him. Felt a bit like the black knight in Monty Python...:)

    Normally Hiawatha plays as a well balanced AI, but this time he must've found some strange mushrooms or something. Never seen anything like it.

    So 2 questions:

    Why the heck did he behave like this in this game?
    And where did he get all those units from?

    If I didn't have LS by then, I would've been toast.
     
  2. SureYouCan

    SureYouCan Warlord

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    He was playing to win.
     
  3. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

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    Thank you for reading through that wall of text! :)

    Playing to win with pikes against muskets...?

    Well, I give it to you, that could be the only reason. Just imagine if he won the first war against America, the he would've been unstoppable.

    But seriously, this is Hiawatha, he always been either Neutral or Friendly in my games before, NEVER Hostile. So it's weird...
     
  4. Im_An_Eejit

    Im_An_Eejit Chieftain

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    He's always been a complete meany to be ever since around march.
    I hate that guy.
    But this fails to answer anything really.
     
  5. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    The answer is every number that determines behavior can be 2 higher or lower than written. If he's written at a balanced 5, for example, he could have a 7 for warmongering in that game. Maybe there are several different stats that determine aggressiveness and he hit the perfect storm for high numbers in the game.
     
  6. TPQ

    TPQ Cogito Ergo Civ

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    Yeah, this must be the answer and explains some other apparently aberrant AI behavior.

    I just lost a game where Cathy went expansion and war crazy and built up a lead of over 3x the score of her nearest rival (me). With massive population she surged ahead in tech and with production bonuses threw more units at me than I could keep up with.

    It got to the stage where I was taking a city from her and the next turn she took it back and then I took it again, etc etc. All the while she was loosing units and so was I, but there was no way I could keep up with her level of production, so my army gradually diminished and I lost a war of attrition. She was fighting several other AIs as well as me, but her units seemed limitless.

    I guess she must have rolled high numbers for aggression and expansion, as she's usually nowhere near as bad.
     
  7. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

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    That might just be the case! I believe you're right there and even Gandhi can go berserk, if the random numbers goes that way. :goodjob:

    But what about all these units, in 100 turns it seems like Hiawatha spammed at least 50, maybe 60 units. It's not even conceivable for a human player to spam more then 10-15 at that time or going into red figures.

    So how is Immortal discount calculated? So and so many free units is ok, but HOW DO they build them that quickly??? A warrior per turn and archers/spears every 2 turns?

    While it takes a human to micro to get a warrior every 4 turns by that age. Just wondering.

    Just adding to my wall of text, Hiawatha actually tried to attack Boston with 4 pikes against Minutemen, he lost of course, but lo and behold a few turns later, he had more pikes defending. Pikes are expensive, especially if you only have 2 ice-cities and no water/coast..just ice, except for 3 tundra tiles? :confused:

    So what are the bonuses for AI on Immortal, regarding units? 4777 free and half the cost, or something?
     
  8. Ian7

    Ian7 Youngest Civver I know!

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    Hiawathas people lived in longhouses, Sitting Bulls (remember him) people lived in teepees, not in game but i real life.
     
  9. Drawmeus

    Drawmeus Emperor

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    To answer the specific questions:
    1. All AIs have personalities but they also have a bit of variance built in. He must have rolled super high on the warmonger-y stuff and low on any peaceful stuff.
    2. On Immortal, he has a massive production bonus and gold bonus, so he may have churned them out. Then again, given their age, he may actually have had most of that military off somewhere else last time you fought him.
     
  10. McLMan

    McLMan Afraid of the monkeys

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    Hiawatha is quite often very aggressive in my games. In my current game he's been pretty much constantly at war since I met him. He must have got the highly aggressive end of the personality variables.
     
  11. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

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    Prove it, that Hiawatha never lived in a teepee!
     
  12. eric_

    eric_ Emperor

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    Hiawatha lived in what is now the eastern US and Canada. Eastern Native Americans often lived in longhouses.

    Teepees were used by great plains (central US) Indians, which were more suitable to nomadic lifestyles.

    long house

    [edit]In fact, the Iroquois (the confederacy Hiawatha led and of which his tribe was a part) are also known as the "Haudenosaunee", aka, "the people of the long house".
     
  13. Kerosene31

    Kerosene31 Prince

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    I've started a few different games and Hiawatha was always on my border, and yes he's been acting completely insane. I kept restarting games and each time he was on my border and attacking me randomly. I can actually deal with the other AI Civs fairly well in Civ V but he comes after me even when he has no chance.
     
  14. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    Should we also prove he didn't live in an Igloo and Pueblo? The Iroquois are the people of the Longhouse. They didn't use teepees, that's a plains Indian thing. The coastal tribes had longhouses and wigwams.
     
  15. King Patrick

    King Patrick Warlord

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    Hiawatha almost always ends up as a runaway civ when he shows up in my games. In my last game, as Alexander, we were neighbors and ended up at war for centuries. Fortunately I had a mountain range with only a couple of passes between us, so I fortified the passes and held him off without too much trouble. (Even better, the terrain below one pass on his side was all swamp, so I had ages to pick off his units with siege weapons as he mucked his way toward me).
     
  16. bryanw1995

    bryanw1995 Emperor

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    In my recent games that had hiawatha he always seemed to be ultra-expansionist and often much more aggressive that I've seen in the past as well. I suspect that he has been re-normed to a higher level of aggression/expansion than he used to possess.
     

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