So why ain't there TWO Viets: One for Age II and the other (Nguyen) for Age III?

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Here. (Leak but not confirmed, semi confirmed.)

Dai Viet cities (Civ7)

Dai Viet cities are Settlements that can be founded by the Dai Viet civilization during the Exploration Age in Civilization VII and its expansions. After the transition to a new Age, one of the previously founded Towns can be turned into a new Capital or, at an advanced start, the first...

civilization.fandom.com

Despite the fact that Nguyen dynasty has been a considerable Nemesis to Rattanakosin Siam for about a century (Replacing a worn out Kaungbaung Burma especially with this empire focusing to win Indian Subcontinent which lead to their eventual downfall at the hands of Britania). Duking out to win city states and smaller kingdoms. A big war that some named Siamese Viceroyalty earned his name... and Rattanakosin Siam took it SERIOUSLY that all Eastern cities got their defenses ramped up and modernized (and 'modernizations' in the sense of firepower-focused fortresses. like Noen Wong Fort built in Chantaburi. which I myself wanted to visit someday)

^ Basically this should actually be Age III 'Walls'.

Is this Medieval Viet one and same as represented in Civ6? and one that Zheng Ce (Playable Character) ruled over ?
but their expansions in 16th-17th Century (Subjugated Champa entirely) coincides with the peak, and the eventual decline of Ayutthaya. which also a regional power that Siam as presented in this game being a direct successor of. (The stylized name of Krung Thep has the name 'Ayutthaya', honoring their roots that its founders came from).

And could this mean that Dai Viet is a successor to Han as well as Khmer?

What is a criterion FXis choose?

 

[Siptah]

So why ain't there TWO Viets: One for Age II and the other (Nguyen) for Age III?​

Because the number of slots until end of the year are limited.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Because the number of slots until end of the year are limited.

And same reasons Ayutthaya of Age II is still an IP much like in Civ6? and not a playable civ? (and no Toungoo Burma, their nemesis showing up too?)

The only known nemesii that shown up in Civ7 vanilla are
Age 1.
1. Greece and Roman Empire
2. Greece and Persia (Archenemid)

Age 2.
1. Chola and Majpahit. (Both have naval UUs intended to pit against each other)
2. Mongolia and Ming China (Basically Ming stemmed from Nationalist rebellion)
3. Normans and Abbassids (Crusade Wars)
4. Spain and Inca (not really sure who is in Age 1 and who's in Age 2. but Pacachuti was Age 2 leader)

Age 3.
1. France and Prussia (with Russia joined the fray sometimes)
2. Russia and Japan (Russo-Japanese War can be recreated, particularly fighting over a dying Qing Empire).

 

[j51]

And same reasons Ayutthaya of Age II is still an IP much like in Civ6? and not a playable civ? (and no Toungoo Burma, their nemesis showing up too?)

And countless others from all over the world dude.

 

[Siptah]

And same reasons Ayutthaya of Age II is still an IP much like in Civ6? and not a playable civ? (and no Toungoo Burma, their nemesis showing up too?)

I would guess so. While I would like more SEA civs eventually, it seems understandable that priorities might lie elsewhere - e.g., (Sub-Saharan) Africa or South America, or more glaring omissions (Ottomans, Netherlands, Aztecs). However, it doesn't look like the first two DLC packs follow what I would perceive as priority. I would still be surprised to see more than the announced SEA civ in the first year.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

The way the Civ rosters work is that they will put out a selection of the series mainstay civs combined with a few new or less frequently used civs in each roster increase (base game, DLCs passes, and expansions). The choices are largely determined by dev interest and 2K marketing strategy. Being included at or near the beginning should not be inferred as a judgement of importance.

Whether or not Vietnam gets two ages of representation is determined by whether the devs are interested (Andrew Johnson probably is), the 2K marketing team thinks it will help sales, and how many roster increases will occur over time. The more expansions and DLC passes they release, the more likely it is that such things will happen.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

This is the most love that Southeast Asia has gotten in Civ. Let's spread that love around to other places too.

I'd expect Burma to appear before two Viets. I'm also not sure about Ayutthaya appearing either. If they were I'd expect Siam to be called Rattanakosin instead.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

This is the most love that Southeast Asia has gotten in Civ. Let's spread that love around to other places too.

I'd expect Burma to appear before two Viets. I'm also not sure about Ayutthaya appearing either. If they were I'd expect Siam to be called Rattanakosin instead.

I have basic ideas for Two Viets and Ayutthaya as a civ.
Medieval Viet would have war elephants as in Civ6
Modern Nguyen era will get Divine Machine being siege choice (basically this should be Ming UU)

Ayutthaya will be Commerce and Militaristic (defense oriented).
Ability: Ramavatar
UI: Diamond Fortress (with two UBs i've yet to think of, activates with Castles tech instead of Civic, the quater comes with pre-built walls.)
UC: Khun Phon (ขุนพล): Superior general riding elephant
UU: Either (By name)
- Sena (เสนา): Superior infantry with spear and round shield
- Chang Suek (ช้างศึก): Cavalry choice that is a direct successor to Khmer Yutthahati but riders and crews wear scalemail.

Civ Icon should be based on this

 

[Xandinho]

Not much interested in a modern representation of Vietnam—I'd much rather see Champa, as an alternative option to the Khmer in Antiquity Southeast Asia. But hey, maybe they could take a little break from Southeast Asia and remember that, I don’t know, some other regions of the world exist? Like, say, the entire Sub-Saharan Africa, which so far boasts the grand total of… only Buganda. And apparently, there isn’t a second representative on the horizon anytime soon.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Not much interested in a modern representation of Vietnam—I'd much rather see Champa, as an alternative option to the Khmer in Antiquity Southeast Asia. But hey, maybe they could take a little break from Southeast Asia and remember that, I don’t know, some other regions of the world exist? Like, say, the entire Sub-Saharan Africa, which so far boasts the grand total of… only Buganda. And apparently, there isn’t a second representative on the horizon anytime soon.

Why not? Why Historical Nemeses is a no do to you? Why Nguyen era shouldn't be here no matter how ambitious it was. and ambitious legacy lives on.

 

[Xandinho]

Why not? Why Historical Nemeses is a no do to you? Why Nguyen era shouldn't be here no matter how ambitious it was. and ambitious legacy lives on.

Champa would serve as a Vietnamese representation, and together with Dai Viet, Vietnam would be covered across two eras. I really don’t see the need for Vietnam to be represented in three different eras—unless, of course, they’re planning to add well over 100 civs. Still, as I said, I’d rather see them focus on other regions that are currently neglected. Southeast Asia is already very well represented.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Why not? Why Historical Nemeses is a no do to you? Why Nguyen era shouldn't be here no matter how ambitious it was. and ambitious legacy lives on.

I'd fear they'd add a second military UU that would have existed outside of the Nguyen Dynasty, like the Viet Cong, as they have for other Modern civs.
I think having just an Exploration Age Vietnam is fine because that is the era when Vietnam really shined, as in regaining independence from China and not being completely taken over by Mongolia etc. Vietnam under the Nguyen dynasty started getting absorbed by France after about 30 years.

 

[agamemnon_of_the-bronze_]

i am not trying to denigrate southeast asia, but i think japan needs ancient or at least exploration rep before Southeast Asia gets anymore. ideally we would get heian or Nara (ancient), then Edo or sengoku (exploration)

 

[Krajzen]

Right now we don't even have two Arabic, Mesopotamian, German, Japanese or Italian civs, so "first tier" ones, let alone two Vietnamese...

 

[notNamed]

Right now we don't even have two Arabic, Mesopotamian, German, Japanese or Italian civs, so "first tier" ones, let alone two Vietnamese...

I mean, Dai Viet is confirmed so two Vietnamese civs with Han (the start of Vietnamese culture and statehood) and Dai Viet (don't know the era yet but obviously sometimes after splitting off from the rest of China) are already sure to be in the game.

And in all honesty a very reasonable full path already exists if you pick Trung Trac and play as Han -> Dai Viet -> French.
You get the birth of the culture, height of its local power, the westernisation period that created the modern state (clothes, food, mythos [Indochinese Wars and Trung], Latinisation, communist thought).

Like, say, the entire Sub-Saharan Africa, which so far boasts the grand total of… only Buganda.

Aksumites and Songhai.
I fully agree that Sub-Saharan Africa could definitely use some more love especially since there's very little you can do with these thematically, practically no follow up or come-from kind of relationships.
But it's still good to not exagerrate the extent of it. Mesoamerican civilisation definitely came off worse in this regard, for instance.

 

[UWHabs]

I'd love having multiple versions, but agreed there's other spots out there that I'd hit up first. Hopefully eventually we go get those 100+ civs, and we can have all these choices.

 

[Tinker]

Just because you're particularly interested in this area of the world doesn't mean we need this many representatives in the game. There are way more civs (and leaders) that "deserve" spots in any Civ game than there ever will be in the actual game. It's all of human history we're talking about here!

But you don't need to argue that something deserves to be in on their own merit (it's basically always true), you need to argue that it deserves to be in *over the rest of the world*. Dev time is the limiting factor, not history.

 

[stealth_nsk]

While I like seeing some unexpected civs, I think Firaxis went a bit too far in this direction. I'd really like to see more popularly known civs like Ottomans, Byzantium, Aztecs or Shogunate Japan before second Viet civ.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I would say specifically South America and Oceania will be the most barebones after Right to Rule only having one civ each from their region. Actually. Right to Rule is coming with 4 civs from across Asia (Assyria, Qajar, Dai Viet, and Silla) so I think that continent is good right now.
And well Africa could always use more civs too.

 

[Zaarin]

with 4 civs from across Asia (Assyria, Qajar, Dai Viet, and Silla) so I think that continent is good right now.

Central Asia is still empty, but that's nothing new.