So why did you buy this game?

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by calad, Nov 7, 2014.

  1. Manannan

    Manannan Prince

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    I'm not saying I know for a fact the beta-testers didn't do anything, I'm saying it feels like it. The game feels like an open beta they decided to charge full price for right now, and from what we saw leading up to release I think it's safe to assume the beta didn't really produce the results people expect or accept from a beta test. I'm not saying the devs get away scot free on this one, I'm saying the beta doesn't look like it was handled well top to bottom. :/
     
  2. Galgus

    Galgus Emperor

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    My expectations were on a range between the absolute ideal for BE and what I absolutely knew would be in there.

    Base - Tech web and Virtues look interesting and will shake things up some, fun theme with Affinities.

    Ideal - Affinities totally change everything! Tons of new options! The AI might just maybe be better! Aliens will kill us all!
    ___

    I got the base rather than the ideal, but I can be happy with that if I can just figure out how to mod more things.
     
  3. m15a

    m15a Emperor

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    Yeah, what you're saying here is reasonable, but, to me, there's a big difference between saying "a job wasn't done" and "certain people didn't do their job" and, especially, singling out a specific person as not being the right person for a job when you don't know anything about how well they do the job is going a bit too far.
     
  4. Manannan

    Manannan Prince

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    I gave a specific example of a single person in asking why Firaxis went to that certain person, instead of someone who seemed more engaged with the series. That's a completely legitimate question to ask, and is not a personal attack on that person. This is me questioning Firaxis' methods and systems, nothing more.
     
  5. Joch

    Joch Warlord

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    I presume the posters blaming the Beta Testers are totally ignorant of how Beta Testing works. I am a Beta Tester, not on this game though. Generally Beta Testers work hard, for free and are committed to putting out a good game. However, the Devs call the final shots.
     
  6. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

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    I'm kind of inclined to agree with this postulation. The whole point to having a betatesting phase is to bring in "a whole set of new eyes" to look at what has been put together thus far. The larger the betatest pool, the more "outside the box" views become available. But too many betatesters and it becomes difficult for the devs to sort through the tsunami of feedback. If the devs have a favorite set of betatesters, it becomes as bad as just stopping with alpha testing. That is, ther favorites are favored because they and the devs tend to think alike. More "inside the box" if you will. Right up there with giving greater credence to a reviewer because he is an acknowledged "expert" in his field. You can have John Q. Nobody say something and it gets ignored because, well, he's nobody special. But have an expert say the exact same thing and it's considered bloody brilliant. Devs having favorites amongst their betatesters introduces that expert bias relationship. So, yeah, I wouldn't doubt that many, many of the undesirable quirks were, in fact, noted by the betatesters. Judging from the final product, I have to assume that if the specific feedback was there, it wasn't be properly "heard" by the devs. The alternative interpretation would have to be that they _did_ "hear", but then deliberately chose to ignore that feedback -- which is rather nefarious and diabolical, leading to contemplations of conspiracy theories.
     
  7. Manannan

    Manannan Prince

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    I'm not blaming the beta testers, I'm blaming everyone involved. When the game everyone apparently worked so hard for comes out with this many bugs and balance issues there are going to be joyless nerds like me who want answers as to what the hell happened; deal with it.

    And assuming everyone involved in a beta works hard is silly. Been there, done that, would be lying if I said I worked super hard on everything I ever got to be involved in the beta for. Like I said earlier, there are a lot of people who just view "beta" as "early access, yaay" and couldn't care less about helping in the development process.
     
  8. kingsbury

    kingsbury Warlord

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    I don't know if I will be buying any expansion packs unless they make some significant balance changes and maybe some additions to gameplay like they did with Civ 5.

    This has less to do with the quality of Beyond Earth, and more to do with the fact that there are other games that I want to spend time playing and I've already played Civ 5 to death.

    I have no experience with the beta community for Firaxis, but the beta community for games like World of Warcraft and Call of Duty must be awful. It takes somewhat of a serious gamer to devote time to a turn based strategy game, so Civ is not really "cool" the way other types of games are. The gaming industry might have a serious problem on its hands if the beta testing ranks are being filled with casual gamers that are only beta testers because they know the right people and have cool ironic non mainstream haircuts.

    I really think the gaming industry in some areas is becoming a victim of its own success. As it makes more and more money and becomes more socially acceptable to play video games, it is bound to attract people who, shall I say, "have agendas". These "agendas" may not be in line with what is best for the gaming industry.
     
  9. m15a

    m15a Emperor

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    Can you give evidence that MadDjinn is not properly engaged?
     
  10. kingsbury

    kingsbury Warlord

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    Say what you will about MadDjinn, at least he is capable of playing Civ on the highest difficulty setting. I've seen streams of people playing beta versions of games that sound like they only got to be beta testers because they sat at the cool kids table at lunch in middle school and literally know nothing about gaming.
     
  11. Joch

    Joch Warlord

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    That is a separate issue and your opinion which I am sure you know not everyone agrees with. For a new release, the game has relatively few bugs, most of which are technical ones. As to the "balancing issues", it is, as usual, nowhere near as bad as some make it out to be.
     
  12. Manannan

    Manannan Prince

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    Uh, his youtube channel maybe? There are other personalities who come off as a lot less bored with the series they could have invited to the beta they didn't. Just sayin'.

    And again this is irrelevant anyway, you act like I'm saying "THAT'S THE GUY WHO RUINED THE GAME, GET HIM" which I haven't anywhere. The whole damn process comes off as sloppy, resulting in a poor release; no idea why you're so excited about one example I used.

    Lolwut? Have you perused the bug report section recently? It isn't S.T.A.L.K.E.R. or New Vegas buggy, sure, but to say it has "relatively few bugs"? Yea right. And yes, the balancing issues are just as bad as people say they are. Apollo should not be the new Emperor. The game feels like no one played it before they released it, and that is not by any stretch of the imagination a separate issue.
     
  13. Soronery

    Soronery Prince

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    I didn't know I was buying the beta
     
  14. rastak

    rastak Emperor

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    You didn't.


    They didn't sell any of their beta versions.
     
  15. m15a

    m15a Emperor

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    What if I said that I happen to think this game has flaws because they tried to appeal to players like Manannan who seems to have poor education?

    You wouldn't have a problem with that, would you? It's not like I said you had poor education - just that I felt that way - and my point is that the game is bad anyway, nothing to do with you, so surely you wouldn't harp on that one detail of my comment, right?

    EDIT: Just so I'm clear, I don't think Manannan has poor education. I have no information about that. Just like neither of us have information about how good certain people do at their job.
     
  16. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Moderator Action: Please do not get personal in your discussions, stick to the topic. Also, please leave out of the discussion people who are members of this site. Staff is reviewing this thread now.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  17. RegentMan

    RegentMan Deity

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    It peaked my interest when I read its announcement. However, as screenshots and videos became available, BE looked to me more and more like a Civ V mod, and my interest was eliminated. Then I tried the demo. Ugh... 70 minutes later and I uninstalled it.

    I put 25 hours in the Civ V: G&K demo, trying all the social policies and some religious combos. I will not buy the Civ V: Beyond Earth mod. Every Civ game has evolved- looking different and bringing new ideas to the table. From Civ II to Civ V (+G&K) I have thoroughly enjoyed myself. BE is merely a Civ V mod with atrocious, muddy graphics that make it impossible to differentiate between marsh and forests. Is there miasma on that tile? No idea- miasma looks like forest or marshes.

    I am disappointed in the latest addition to the Civilization series. I am crossing my fingers that Civ VI moves away from the Civ V engine and rules (1UPT and having more than three cities is a possible strategy). Back to Civ IV and the occasional Civ V...
     
  18. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

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    Some of this back-and-forth may have to do with how different people define certain words. For example, describing the game as "buggy": A bug is a game-breaker that causes crashes. In that light, CBE really isn't buggy at all (according to industry publishing standards). I played the game for 61 hours, and in all that time, I had _two_ freezes. That's VERY tolerable ... to me anyway. Then there's "glitch", which I define as being when a game mechanism (e.g.,Trade) operates in an unforeseen manner. Like instead of getting Energy and Science on a route like the description says it should, it provides Food and Health. Oops. Then lastly, there's flaws, which deals with things like game balance, shoddy graphics, the effects of certain bonuses, etc. All of these things should have been spotted and addressed during the QA process (alpha- and betatesting). Hardly any bugs or glitches, but MANY flaws. And just reviewing the forums, it seems that flaws are what nearly all of the complaints are about. (And rightly so, IMHO.)
     
  19. rastak

    rastak Emperor

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    No way they go back to stacks and a million cities....not happening.
     
  20. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Emperor

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    You know, it is actually pretty important to have "low skill" people when beta testing a game. Otherwise you can end up with a default difficulty that is too hard for your main audience.

    Expert players also (usually) find it rather easy to deduce how systems work (even more so if they played previous iterations of a series), so it is important to have "newcomer" feedback to improve game feedback & UI design and streamline the information flow to the player.
     

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