So.. you we're born with a heart full of neutrality

[Gray-Z]

Being neutral. What does it mean? You are stuck with druids. If you are not a dwarf that sucks big time. So how do you feel about druid? or being neutral in general.

Personally I hate being neutran unless playing a dwarf. Dwarven druids are just plain awesome compared to normal druid (not counting Balseraph). I feel like the standard druid could use some combat or summoning spells. Terraforming and poison blades are great but once you are done with them they aren't really worth much. +1 nature affinity sort of blows as well since you dont get anything but the +1 strenght to druids. Maybe give it some other passive benefit as well like health or smily face.

Not to mention the fact that you are swamped with hell terrain if the AC rises high enough (sucks to be neutral elves). I dont think any of the "benefits" of being neurtal outweigh the ones from being evil or good.

This is sort of an Octopus Overlords rant. I like playing the Lanun with OO but the fact that im stuck with druids and to make any use of them in combat i need to spam nature mana nodes. and to get druid I need to research couple of "useless" techs in the middle to get an average unit

Druids feel like they should be UU for the elves. Making nature mana have some special elf only bonus they give. And give all religions some really awsome T4 units like better Stygian Guards for OO, Satyr Updates for FoL, Crusader of Kilmorph or something. Keep the Paladins and Eidolons for Order and AV only.

Just my 2 cent rant. Please give your opinions.

 

[Mesix]

I like Druids. I often wish that I was neutral so that I could get Druids. I find the utility of the Paladins and Eidolons to be less than that of Druids. I can already build tier 4 combat units. Having paladins doesn't really help me much. Druids on the other hand are very useful. They can teraform, heal, and fight. If they are upgraded from a priest they aslo keep the spellcasting abilities of their former religion. Having Druids that can cast Tsunami is awesome!

 

[KillerClowns]

Funny. A lot of people (especially playing as Arendel Phaedra) actively seek to switch away to Neutral, for the very same reason: druids. The Amurites, IIRC, can turn them into what are essentially archmages via Govannon. Need I explain what an extra four doses of Wonder can do? Plus, as mentioned by Mesix, upgrading from priests is usually best option (unless you follow Esus or are Grigori) for any Neutral civilization.

 

[civ_king]

amurites can give 13 doses of Wonder per turn

 

[Lade]

Paladins are much better then tier 4 units if your going for a AoL victory, as you can get combat IV right off the bat

 

[someone67]

Being neutral. What does it mean? You are stuck with druids. If you are not a dwarf that sucks big time. So how do you feel about druid? or being neutral in general.

Personally I hate being neutran unless playing a dwarf. Dwarven druids are just plain awesome compared to normal druid (not counting Balseraph).

Well, as already mentioned Druids are better than Eidolons and Paladins because they can be used as additional high priests. And although dwarven druids are strong (crush!), do they really compete to amurite druids wich can learn every arcane spell in the game? And normal druids can buff units and terraform- aside from fighting, dwarven druids can only raise city defence.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

They can get the full set of arcane earth spells, though wall of stone is the only one they start with.

 

[odalrick]

amurites can give 13 doses of Wonder per turn

Four archmages, four liches, four druids, four highpriests, Govannon and Hemah... Did I forget anything? Is Wonder affected by Twincast?

Anyway, 13 doses is only true in a "There is one dragon in the cave." type way.

 

[Guale]

Yeah, wonder is affected by twincast, but only the units it summons.

 

[cabbagemeister]

Druids can be awesome; the key is upgrading them from priests and not building them from scratch, as that way they have access to the T3 divine spells. For non-spiritual civs, this is pretty much the best way to get those spells, as it takes forever for priests to get to level 6. A lot of the T3 divine spells are tremendous too (Crown of Brilliance, Summon Balor, Unyielding Order are all great, and Summon Treant is very solid). You get all that, plus they have easy access to Vitalize, which turns weak plains cities into strong grassland cities, and turns strong floodplain-cottage cities into absurd cities where every tile is 4food 1 hammer 6 commerce (and if you're an elf running FoL, you can Bloom the tile for 5food 2 hammers 5 commerce).

In summary, I like Druids better than Pals/Eids:

1) If I'm the Amurites or the dwarves
2) If I'm running Empy, AV, or Order
3) If I have a lot of floodplains
4) If I'm the elves running FoL and I have a lot of non-grassland

 

[zup]

I thought twincast was supposed to let you cast 2 spells/round. Am I mistaken? Also, in my experience forests and floodplains are mutually exclusive. Not that I'd mind floodplain+oasis+ancient forest grasslands for my farms.

 

[Blackmantle]

Neutral all the way. Screw Paladins and Eidoloa

 

[KillerClowns]

I thought twincast was supposed to let you cast 2 spells/round. Am I mistaken?...

Aye, unfortunately, it just doubles summons. Nonetheless a useful promo, especially for summoners.

 

[wuntoothrie]

I thought twincast was supposed to let you cast 2 spells/round. Am I mistaken? Also, in my experience forests and floodplains are mutually exclusive. Not that I'd mind floodplain+oasis+ancient forest grasslands for my farms.

no it just double casts the spells you cast ... yeah, what he said (KillerClowns)

Four archmages, four liches, four druids, four highpriests, Govannon and Hemah... Did I forget anything? Is Wonder affected by Twincast?

Anyway, 13 doses is only true in a "There is one dragon in the cave." type way.

that's 18 and hemah could be Gibbon ... and I find that dominate is more affective than wonder ... turn a cities own defenses against it ...

dominated units make good fodder, and you can dominate heroes ...

... now as to the topic, I prefer a more polytheistic approach ... switch religions build priests from each and the religion specific UUs ... this works well with spiritual leaders (no anarchy) but a few turns of anarchy is good for the spirit ... if you switch from good to evil and then to neutral you can retain your Druids, Eidelons, and Paladins ... rather than role-playing any set story line I like to play huge terra marathon games where what happens in each game is that worlds history and can be written anew each time ...

paladins and eidelons can be made from priests too ... pretty cool having an eidelon who can cast ring of flames ... or a paladin with a spirit guide, who can bless himself and his stack before battle ... or being Lanun and having 8 Krakens

in Taoist terms rather than being the neutral hub of the wheel that makes the wheel useful ... I prefer to encapsulate balance between good and evil ... not taking sides ... standing my own ground ...

and of course ending up with CoE because I like livin like a ninja ... awwwww yeeaaahhhh

 

[Verily]

Druids can be awesome; the key is upgrading them from priests and not building them from scratch, as that way they have access to the T3 divine spells. For non-spiritual civs, this is pretty much the best way to get those spells, as it takes forever for priests to get to level 6. A lot of the T3 divine spells are tremendous too (Crown of Brilliance, Summon Balor, Unyielding Order are all great, and Summon Treant is very solid). You get all that, plus they have easy access to Vitalize, which turns weak plains cities into strong grassland cities, and turns strong floodplain-cottage cities into absurd cities where every tile is 4food 1 hammer 6 commerce (and if you're an elf running FoL, you can Bloom the tile for 5food 2 hammers 5 commerce).

In summary, I like Druids better than Pals/Eids:

1) If I'm the Amurites or the dwarves
2) If I'm running Empy, AV, or Order
3) If I have a lot of floodplains
4) If I'm the elves running FoL and I have a lot of non-grassland

Of course, you can't be following Ashen Veil or the Order and build Druids at the same time. You could build Ritualists or Confessors, then convert to some other religion to make you Neutral, then upgrade the Ritualists or Confessors into Druids. But then you can't convert back to Ashen Veil or the Order without the Druids abandoning you.

 

[Mesix]

I thought twincast was supposed to let you cast 2 spells/round. Am I mistaken? Also, in my experience forests and floodplains are mutually exclusive. Not that I'd mind floodplain+oasis+ancient forest grasslands for my farms.

I think he is right. If you are FOL religion and cast bloom on a FP tile a forest will coexist with the FP. I'll have to give it a try to be sure.

Even without a forest (or ancient forest), having Druids Vitalize a Floodplains makes a Flood Plains/Desert into a Flood Plains/Plains. Four base food and one base hammer. Add a cottage/town and it becomes a super tile.

 

[Guale]

No, FP and forests can't coexist and now vitalize removes floodplains.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Floodplains and forests could never coexist. Both are features, and you cannot have more than 1 feature on a tile.

 

[wuntoothrie]

Of course, you can't be following Ashen Veil or the Order and build Druids at the same time. You could build Ritualists or Confessors, then convert to some other religion to make you Neutral, then upgrade the Ritualists or Confessors into Druids. But then you can't convert back to Ashen Veil or the Order without the Druids abandoning you.

my druids don't abandon me ...

in my current game I am 'Order' and have 4 Eidelon and 4 Beasts of Agares ... they probably should abandon you, but they don't ...

 

[cabbagemeister]

No, FP and forests can't coexist and now vitalize removes floodplains.

It's true that FPs and forests can't coexist (I thought they used to be able to?), but Vitalize doesn't remove FPs.