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Soapbox:Time we stop acting like an asshat of a species before we go out like dinos

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by hobbsyoyo, Feb 15, 2013.

  1. tokala

    tokala Emperor

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    The effective field of view of the 90 cm spacewatch telecope is about 3 square degrees, and they are using 120 seconds integration time per image. With something like 8 hours observation time per night they would scan about 700 square degrees, taking about two month for a all-sky survey.

    To assure a meaningful evacuation leadtime for a 10-20m object we would need a hundred of those telecopes. Sun and moon in concert will cause a sizable "blind spot" for a ground based real-time search program, so you would need to put those scopes into orbit.
     
  2. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    In other words, there was a GREAT BIG BOOM!, something bright dropped out of the sky, and the water was made noxious due to such things as sulfur mixing with it.

    No supernatural beings required.

    You have an appallingly callous attitude toward frogs and any other animals and plants harmed during the Tunguska Event or any other natural disaster. Sure, no humans were killed. But the ecosystem was absolutely ruined.

    You do understand that depending on the force and angle a piece of glass hits you at, it can kill you? If a glass shard gets into your eye, it can blind you? Ever had glass fall on you from a shattered window? I have - luckily I wasn't physically injured, but it was damn scary.

    Maybe when we finally make it out to Jupiter, we can ask the Jovians what kind of damage Shoemaker-Levy 9 did to their ecosystem and how many lifeforms were affected.

    (yes, I am being optimistic that just maybe there might be lifeforms living there)
     
  3. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    Well, a well-deserved :hatsoff: to Saturn, then!
     
  4. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    They wouldn't survive the entry into space and would die from the heat.
     
  5. TomYo689

    TomYo689 Emperor

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    Says the extremophile biology professor
     
  6. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    the impact simulator says the Earth's orbital parameters wouldn't change much if it was struck by something thousands of miles in diameter

    there is no Oort Cloud
     
  7. cardgame

    cardgame Obsessively Opposed to the Typical

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    It's an alien (read: unknown) organism, you can't say that with any degree of certainty — and neither can anyone else.
     
  8. timtofly

    timtofly One Day

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    Perhaps the next time one of our space fairing vessels comes back with any organisms, they should place some samples on the outside of the re-entry vehicle, just to test that theory?
     
  9. TomYo689

    TomYo689 Emperor

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    It's phrased as if it in effect has not yet occured
     
  10. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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  11. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Saturn has just a bit more gravitational force than the Earth has.



    Jupiter is more massive than Saturn by over a factor of 4 and has more than double the gravitational force, yet even it doesn't attract that many meteorites.

    If any celestial body in our solar system would attract meteorites, it would be the Sun that has nearly 28 times the gravitational force of Earth. But even it doesn't have that much effect other than changing their trajectories.

    A meteorite has to be on a near collision course before it will be drawn in by gravitational forces.
     
  12. Vertinari118

    Vertinari118 Deity

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    Woh ignore me. Need to refresh threads before posting. This is no longer relevant.
     
  13. ace99

    ace99 Deity

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    Because space rocks are sexy. Everything that you mentioned isn't.
     
  14. tokala

    tokala Emperor

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    That chart refers to "surface" gravity. This has no no importance in the context you are trying to set it.
    And the mechanism how large planets attract small bodies is a bit more complicated.
     
  15. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

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    I guess you're joking, but in case you're not (oh the joys of written forum communication):

    So it was in Mt. St. Helens eruption or any other natural disaster we cannot prevent.

    I do realize that. It's a risk of having glass windows and living on Earth. What I was saying is that getting seriously injured or even killed by an asteroid impact is VERY VERY VERY remote possibility and therefore hyping up the threat serves nobody and nothing.

    ---

    tokala and uppi have Demonstrated By Maths that detecting rocks measuring in metres is borderline impossible beyond extreme near Earth distances. Rather than waste time, resources, and money chasing the unattainable goal of being able to predict every small impact that rarely kills people, we should perhaps use the money for something more worthwhile.

    In space, that means boosting up infrastructure to allow us to detect and *deflect* larger asteroids. Those measuring in hundreds of metres in diameter and more.

    You know the semi-joke:

    Question: "Does it make sense to have an insurance against asteroids?"
    Answer: "Yes, but only against the smaller ones."
    Question: "Why, don't the bigger ones cause far more damage?"
    Answer: "Yes, but it isn't probable any insurance agent would survive the impact of those."

    ;)
     
  16. tokala

    tokala Emperor

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    Actually I might have been too conservative in my guesstimate.

    If you accept that a "small fry" early warnig system will not get close to 100% effective, you can build a specialized system for the cost of a few million $ that will give you about a 50% chance of catching a Tunguska-like impactor in time to mount an effective evacuation, the larger the object the better the odds.



    By focussing specifically on potential impactors instead of a general NEO search you can significantly cut down the effort.
    And even such a specialized system would be useful for a lot of other purposes.
     
  17. LamaGT

    LamaGT Emperor

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    As tokala said that's surface gravity and it doesn't matter for orbits. The low surface gravity of Saturn is due to its extremely low density, but its mass is just fine, being one third of Jupiter's and 95 times Earth's.
    The planets can't attract meteorites directly, simply because the meteorites already have a speed and orbit of their own. Planets (especially Jupiter) do however deflect the trajectory of asteroids, speeding them up or slowing them down. Indeed, Jupiter is responsible for the formation of the asteroid belt in the first place.
     
  18. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus

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    Or, more to the point, the insurance claimant.

    Actually,see this article - certainly the inside of such an asteroid would still be relatively cool, and quite possibly suitable for the survival of some sort of life within it.
     
  19. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Good point regarding the surface gravity versus the gravitational force. I stand corrected.

    But you are echoing my main point that Jupiter, Saturn, and even the Sun deflect the path of celestial bodies far more than they protect the Earth from impacts from these objects. They might very well cause just the opposite to occur by deflecting something into a collision course.

    But that last sentence seems misleading. The gravitational forces of Jupiter apparently caused the asteroids to not accrete into a planet. But they didn't in some way cause the asteroids to form. Jupiter even causes many of the meteorites to impact inner planets when the asteroids collide with each other:

     
  20. LamaGT

    LamaGT Emperor

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    Yes I phrased it poorly, it just prevented the formation of a single planet in the place of the belt.
     

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