Inspired by a debate in another thread, I thought I'd open this - what is your understanding of social class? What class groups are there? What puts you in a certain group?
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Social Class
- Thread starter Flying Pig
- Start date
Middle-class people need to as well, though.
That would make everyone on Earth working class, except for people who do no work, such as retirees, children, homeless, and anybody wealthy enough to not work.
My completely subjective and anecdotal observations are from living in the UK and the US. In the US it seems more about occupation, location, and wealth. In the UK it seemed more about family lineage and wealth; you could be an unemployed deadbeat, but nonetheless also some member of a well known ridiculously wealthy noble family, and you are kind of looked upon with a wierd mix of reverence, envy and scorn. It gives you a definite amount of clout, whereas here that is an often mocked cliche. There is a scorn for people with a lot of money that "didn't do anything for it." In a very weird way, in the US it's worse to be an unemployed trust fund baby than to amass your wealth by being an evil, manipulative, back stabbing workaholic. The question here isn't "what's in your bank account," but "what's your income?"
American cultural mockery of the cliched English "noble" class, or those with large amounts of inherited wealth, probably relates back to our young country's need to artificially define itself apart from its Anglican heritage. Our whole disdain for "nobility" and titles and so on is even written in stone in our Constitution.
Of course I think this is kind of silly and hypocritical for two reasons. We in the US have an analogous class system based on occupation, income, and sometimes race; and 2) we should have just as much if not more scorn for the guy who came up with some stupid idea that made him millions yet who is really a totally lazy douche, than the inherited wealth trust fund baby who nonetheless tries to be responsible and stay busy, or decides to pursue some sort of noble effort, or charity, or public service (*cough* Kennedy *cough*).
American cultural mockery of the cliched English "noble" class, or those with large amounts of inherited wealth, probably relates back to our young country's need to artificially define itself apart from its Anglican heritage. Our whole disdain for "nobility" and titles and so on is even written in stone in our Constitution.
Of course I think this is kind of silly and hypocritical for two reasons. We in the US have an analogous class system based on occupation, income, and sometimes race; and 2) we should have just as much if not more scorn for the guy who came up with some stupid idea that made him millions yet who is really a totally lazy douche, than the inherited wealth trust fund baby who nonetheless tries to be responsible and stay busy, or decides to pursue some sort of noble effort, or charity, or public service (*cough* Kennedy *cough*).
In my opinion, class is mostly artificial and imaginary. What defines someone in upper class or lower class? I've never heard of a good definition. And if it matters, people who have the highest paying jobs at a company tend to work the most hours. Every manager at every company I ever worked at worked more hours than the people under him.
Cheetah
Deity
Uh... It's just a really big topic, and not a very tangible one.
Lots of information, theories and ways of measuring it can be found here (of course): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class
As far as I can say with certainity:
1. Social classes are real and does exist.
2. Everyone belongs to a social class (or more than one, according to different systems), even though a lot of people the last decades have asserted that social classes no longer exist.
3. The classification of social classes usually involves economic standing, but family background, cultural identities, likes and dislikes and lots of other things can also be judged. Interestingly enough, most of these measurements are corelated.
4. In most societies today the classes are usually seen as:
Lots of information, theories and ways of measuring it can be found here (of course): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class
As far as I can say with certainity:
1. Social classes are real and does exist.
2. Everyone belongs to a social class (or more than one, according to different systems), even though a lot of people the last decades have asserted that social classes no longer exist.
3. The classification of social classes usually involves economic standing, but family background, cultural identities, likes and dislikes and lots of other things can also be judged. Interestingly enough, most of these measurements are corelated.
4. In most societies today the classes are usually seen as:
1. Upper class / Rich / Capitalist / from certain families (politically, culturally, religious, etc.)
2. Middle class / White collar / well educated / can be rich(er), etc.
3. Lower class / working class / blue collar / usually not university educated, manual labor, etc.
Of course, all these classes can be split into smaller granually classes.2. Middle class / White collar / well educated / can be rich(er), etc.
3. Lower class / working class / blue collar / usually not university educated, manual labor, etc.
Social class is multifaceted and has several contributing factors;
1 - Income (Dollar Amount)
2 - Source of Income (Legal? Not Legal? Retirement?)
3 - Use of Income (Conspicuous consumption, savings, transfer to other people)
4 - Retention and sustainability of income (After necessities how much money do you have? How much do you put away into your stores of net worth? How secure is your job? How much longer do you think you will be working?)
5 - Net Worth (Savings, Housing, Precious Metals)
6 - Debt Load (Total dollar amount, minimum service amount per month as a percentage of income)
7 - Peer's and Family's 1 through 6
8 - Political disposition (How partisan are you? How would your political beliefs, if implimented, actually would impact your life? How petty are your political beliefs?)
9 - Concept of Responsibility for Self (Do you blame other people for your situation? Do you think that people have only themselves to blame for their situation?)
10 - Self Perception and Self Awareness (Are you aware of social situations so that you can appropriately in them, assuming you're don't have Aspergers or Autism?)
11 - Entertainment Activities (Bloodsports? Reality TV? Celebrity Gossip?)
12 - Overall Physical Health (Obese?)
13 - Addictions (Smoking, Chewing, Malt Liquor, Ice Beer, Meth, Heroin)
14 - Superstitious Belief (Belief in events happening due to agents outside of our perception? Belief that doing certain things tangentially can lead to desired outcomes)
15 - Adaptability to New Situations
16 - Initiative to Pursue New Beneficial Situations
These are some starting points and I'm sure not all of them would be good measures but may be worth discussing.
Cheetah
Deity
And I want to add that I'm sure most people on this forum are from a middle class background.
(For the US; barrier between the corporate elite and upper middle class seems a bit low though.)
Cheetah
Deity
No, classes are real. They're not easy to define, but on a case to case basis it is usually possible to identify roughly which class people belong to, and to compare two people based on their class standing.
And it is not uncommon for middle-middle class and upper-middle class to work more hours than people from lower classes, but they also earn more.
mitsho
Deity
Social classes are always a simplification. If you use it to debate financial issues of the state (taxes etc. ) you can do that by dividing the income. This is also the simplest way and leads to the best results because the question and answer are deeply interlinked.
If you go more from a sociological view of a topography of the society, you'd also have to factor in education, heritage (cultural and family), age, occupation, etc. The image would be very varied. Let me give an example.
You studied, but you didn't go into one of those "corporate soul sucking job", instead you became a elementary school teacher. It's a low paid job that might be stressfull and therefore you will not have much money for holidays and so on. But you have many friends who also studied which is what separates you from the mailman. You may also live in the inner-city and vote left, go more to theatres than the cinema. And so on and so on. (This example also varies a lot from country to country, as for example, in France or the United STates, the bar is much lower to go to the university as for example in countries with a dual-education-system like Switzerland or NEtherlands (or Germany).
I don't consider myself as belonging to a special social class. Of course, most of my friends are 'academics' (students) and I can only somehow imagine myself in a relationship with someone with whom I could not discuss for example politics. My Family does have money, but not that much (for example in comparison to (some of) my classmates from the "secondary school", I however don't know how much money I will make, I didn't chose my studies in that regard, etc. etc. etc.
So, as a simple answer:
The concept of a social class only makes sense in a scientific debate leading to a political solution for a problem of the society (e.g. taxes or equal access to Higher Education).
If you go more from a sociological view of a topography of the society, you'd also have to factor in education, heritage (cultural and family), age, occupation, etc. The image would be very varied. Let me give an example.
You studied, but you didn't go into one of those "corporate soul sucking job", instead you became a elementary school teacher. It's a low paid job that might be stressfull and therefore you will not have much money for holidays and so on. But you have many friends who also studied which is what separates you from the mailman. You may also live in the inner-city and vote left, go more to theatres than the cinema. And so on and so on. (This example also varies a lot from country to country, as for example, in France or the United STates, the bar is much lower to go to the university as for example in countries with a dual-education-system like Switzerland or NEtherlands (or Germany).
I don't consider myself as belonging to a special social class. Of course, most of my friends are 'academics' (students) and I can only somehow imagine myself in a relationship with someone with whom I could not discuss for example politics. My Family does have money, but not that much (for example in comparison to (some of) my classmates from the "secondary school", I however don't know how much money I will make, I didn't chose my studies in that regard, etc. etc. etc.
So, as a simple answer:
The concept of a social class only makes sense in a scientific debate leading to a political solution for a problem of the society (e.g. taxes or equal access to Higher Education).
Here's my take on the matter:
Upper Class - you were born with some sort of title. Certain titles, like being made a Lord, can get you into this, but generally movement into it doesn't happen.
Middle Class - more assumed than taken. If your job needs a lot of education and pays well, you can probably claim this.
Working Class - have generally got aat least a decent chance of a paid job, but not one that requires a lot of education. Speaking with a non-standard accent probably lands you in this category regardless of anything else, as does liking boxing.
Lower Class - None of the Above
Upper Class - you were born with some sort of title. Certain titles, like being made a Lord, can get you into this, but generally movement into it doesn't happen.
Middle Class - more assumed than taken. If your job needs a lot of education and pays well, you can probably claim this.
Working Class - have generally got aat least a decent chance of a paid job, but not one that requires a lot of education. Speaking with a non-standard accent probably lands you in this category regardless of anything else, as does liking boxing.
Lower Class - None of the Above
Cheetah
Deity
I would still say that the extremely rich goes into some Upper Class category, even though they don't have any titles.
RalofTyr
King
In America, there's much upward mobility that social class is less important that race.
Patroklos
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2003
- Messages
- 12,721
It is also important to note that money is not the sole determinate of class. I know quite a few wealthy people who are not cultured, and for that reason are not really accepted into various upper class circles. Conversly, I know quite a few dirt poor people who are very cultured and can walk inside those same circles with ease.
In Brazil the official statistics body divides the social classes in letters, from A to E. Those classes are then subdivided in subclasses, ranging from AAA to EEE. The classification is based primarily on family income, but also takes in consideration education level and the stuff you own (as in how many cars, TVs, refrigerators, microwave ovens and etc are there in your home). In a country such as ours it makes no sense to talk about titles or lineage; new money marries into old money all the time and we're all mutts.
Middle class gets wealthier each year, through savings and investment.
Upper middle class chews with their mouth closed.
Upper middle class chews with their mouth closed.
Indeed. It's interesting to even note the difference between rich people and their social circles based on where their wealth came from.
