Deleting the fiftychat group would be silly. Like it or not, deny it or not, but its a major part of OT culture. We've had easily 100+ different people from CFC on fiftychat, including many highly regarded members (e.g. moderators). We've been significantly more active than the official CFC chat for years now. The social group currently has the most members of any social group, and thats with not even close to every fiftychatter represented. "All or nothing" style rules don't work, things just have to be decided on a case by case basis. Let me give an example. Fiftychat has some regular subdiscussions and groups of people who tend to chat at different times. However, I don't think I should be allowed to use CFC resources to create a "European Fiftychatter" group, and a "Fiftychat Uno Club" group, and a "Fiftychat Trivia Enthusiasts" group and a "Girls of Fiftychat" group. However, it makes sense that NESers should be allowed to have lots of different subgroups, because it makes a lot more sense for them given what NESing is, its purpose, and its connection to CFC. So a "no split groups and subgroups"! general rule would be silly, and it would not be a double standard to allow lots of NES subgroups but not Fiftychat subgroups. Similarly, allowing a billion "[user x fan club]" or "[cool people group]" doesn't make sense in the same way that allowing a major OT-offshoot does. And for what its worth, I think any other OT-offshoot should be allowed to make a group if they want, but the problem is that the other main ones (Secret Spam Kingdom and Speakeasy) want to remain private/secretive, whereas fiftychat welcomes pretty much everyone (our only current ban is for a user who tried to seriously mess up our server). Note that if mods decide that they will allow any group, then fine. I have no problem with azza's group existing (azza is a friend and fiftychatter!), I just think that if the line has to be drawn somewhere, frivolity may be a good place to draw it. As for the moderating of social groups, I saw ainwood say that the mod tools for groups only allows for mass deletion of discussions, not for selective modding. I think that that may be a good thing. Perhaps it would lessen the "stuff to keep an eye on" load of all the mods, plus promote the existence of groups that have an actual purpose, if moderating of groups took place at the group-creator level. If mods notice that a group's discussion tends to be against the rules (whatever rules we end up having for group discussion), perhaps a "group warning" could be given to the group creator... after a certain number of these the group gets forcibly deleted. That way group creators have an incentive to pay closer attention to the discussion that is going on in their group and make sure it stays in the rules, and mods won't have to babysit problem groups for very long. It would be nice though, if its possible, for there to be multiple group admins for a given group, but there is currently no way for me to appoint (say) Perfection as fellow group admin for the fiftychat group.