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Social policies - immersion problems

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by V. Soma, Oct 19, 2010.

  1. V. Soma

    V. Soma long time civ fan

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    I want to ask the CFC community about something I have as a problem with SP:

    I like it when I can choose a new policy,
    making a decision on what tree to open and where to head, but...
    ...I don't get the immersion, as the way it is now,
    I don't get any historical feeling about my empire... :(

    ...I have to tell you, I just simply don't read the "title" to the given SP when choosing,
    and in the game I don't have much feedback on
    what social elements my empire is made of.

    (OK, I have the title at the beginning of each turn,
    that say "X, the duke of Y" and so, but that is nothing to have immersion...)

    What could be changed to have the feeling?
     
  2. JoxerNL

    JoxerNL Warlord

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    for some reason i didn't really have a problem with this.
    I mostly play with random leaders, and try to play to the best of their UU's and UB's and offcourse their little ability.

    I will forego teching the usuall path to grabb those asap, and my policies will also be used to heighten their abilities.

    For example as Japan, i beelined writing, some of the lower techs like archery and straight for samurai.
    Social Policy of "Honor" was taken right away as it fitts feudal Japan.

    Edit : sorry re-reading the post it feels as if i didn't spend enough time on the question at hand.
    I usually adopt my social policy choices to the civ i have gotten, for Japan that would for instance be honor, followed by monarchy, im not trying to minx/max my game, it's more about making a historically correct working civ, for me at least, and it helps alot in the immersion factor for me.
     
  3. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    For the trees I have quite good immersion (except for Liberty - quite poor wording, IMHO). I choose honor and religion for my Aztecs and it has both gameplay and feeling.

    The individual SP are different, but still some of them like Scientific revolution are very good.
     
  4. Haiku

    Haiku Chieftain

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    A throne room enhancement each time you unlock a social policy will have been great.

    Like an old coat of arms hanging on the wall when you unlock "Military Tradition", or adding the constitution book on your desk when unlocking the "Constitution".

    Some flavor explanations (like for the wonders) will also be great.

    And finally, a summary of your policies bonus, along with a generated name for your civilization ("the holy republic of Babylon", "the Mongol merchant consortium", ...)
     
  5. V. Soma

    V. Soma long time civ fan

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    Yes, things like these... would be great...

    also, BTW, in diplomacy,
    background of leaders could be accordingly to the era the leader is in...
    (like civ1 clothes)
     
  6. salaminizer

    salaminizer Colorado Internacional

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    I feel like the Social Policies are simply bonuses you pick over time, the name and their effects are meaningless. (correct me if I'm wrong, but) there are no drawbacks (like the upkeeps in CivIV), and even the if the civics in CivIV had no direct drawbacks, you couldn't just whip your cities for free. the policies seem to be more traits that you're "imprinting" in your Civ.

    overall, Civ V paints a really nice picture of the world where the only thing that will set you back is lack of money (because if you have problems with happiness, money will probably fix it). t

    what Haiku said about the titles could be interesting too, other than that just a big design change would do IMO.
     
  7. gunter

    gunter King

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    Yes, IMO social policies are not supposed to add an historical feeling, many other missing features yes instead, for example victory movies, wonder movies etc etc.. would add a tremendous boost of historical feeling.
     
  8. player1 fanatic

    player1 fanatic Fanatic

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    I think it's the issue that most policy names really have nothing to do with their effects.

    I mean, why would Oligarchy (rule of small group) give you defense bonus?

    Plus some are contradictory, if you look by their names (or civilopedia historic data).
     
  9. jahsoldier

    jahsoldier Warlord

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    Yeah, the Liberty tree just doesn't make a lot of sense. Take Citizenship for instance - worker speed increased 33% - to me that just sounds like slavery...
     
  10. zonk

    zonk Prince

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    Well, I've taken to just referring to it as "pink science" -- because really, that's what it is... a secondary tech tree with some mutual exclusivity, costs that scale updwards, researched with a different currency from blue science.

    I suppose that doesn't help with your immersion issue, but honestly, other than piety and patronage, I couldn't even tell you what the other pink science branches are called.... and I've won by building several pink spaceships already, so I've been through all the trees.

    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar -- and insisting that "Social Policies" is the new "government/civics" simply isn't going to fly.

    It's pink science.... why fight it?
     
  11. Rub'Rum

    Rub'Rum Hates acronyms

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    I agree about the OP. Haiku has some good suggestions that would add flavor. There really needs to be something added... Because most of the time I can't really remember what kind of social policy I last picked (except the broad category).

    If I come here and talk about how Monarchy is a great social policy, I bet a great many people will have no idea right away and will have to go look in the manual or in the game to remember "oh it's the one at the bottom right of the Tradition tree" (I think?). What?! It should be something important to be a monarchy. Oh and let alone the fact that later on you can take on some other policies and you wonder "which one is the most important for my empire"? Something's missing in terms of feedback.
     
  12. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    having diplomacy matter based on what "government" you choose could have helped with that feeling. It would actually mean something if you were communist and other civs didn't like you for being communist.
     
  13. Veshta

    Veshta Warlord

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    Policies are actually optional, you can win a science/diplo/domination/time King games without selecting a single one - tried that already. They can provide some substantial bonuses but they are nowhere near as game changing/defining as the Civ4 civics were so in the end its a matter of taste.

    Pink Science .. I like that description, very astute :D
     
  14. TheFourthDoctor

    TheFourthDoctor Chieftain

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    A similar "painting" screen when unlocking a new SP branch would be great. Nice one. :goodjob:
     
  15. player1 fanatic

    player1 fanatic Fanatic

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    I wouldn't call it "pink science", but it is sort of social science. After all, technology is not only thing that progressed over time.

    Still, my old objection stands. Lack of flavor, and bonuses having pretty much nothing with policy names.
     
  16. V. Soma

    V. Soma long time civ fan

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    and how about when one civ has SP that is contrary to another civ's SP
    - have negative and verbally expressed effect in diplomacy.
    (eg. war SP contra peace SP)
     
  17. DaveGold

    DaveGold Emperor

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    Agreed. It also doesn't help that they've put the wrong names on the policies.

    Democracy - Peaceful change of government, so helps you gain civics? No it's +50% great people.
    Free Speech - Expression of ideas so helps with great people? No it's -25% off policy costs.

    The fact that humanism would cancel free religion doesn't make much sense either. Liberty is not an ancient era concept. A constitution replaces government through symbolism rather than enhances it. Not many of the names make that much sense really.
     
  18. player1 fanatic

    player1 fanatic Fanatic

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    And what about SPs that are contrary to each other (while both valid by rules)? They are too immersion breakers.

    It seems as bonuses where designed first, and then names were added at the end of the design cycle, out of blue (or should I say pink :D).


    P.S.
    The only thing that currently helps immersion is ruler title (based on policy you developed the most).
     
  19. Charles Martel

    Charles Martel Warlord

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    The problem with Civ's social policies is that they are nothing more than labels for a bunch of bonuses. Contrast this with Paradox games, where government types and policies are associated with varying game-mechanics and play styles. For example, if you are an hereditary monarchy you have royal marriages and succession wars, if you are a Roman-style republic you have consular elections and senatorial factions, etc.
     
  20. zonk

    zonk Prince

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    Even the mutually exclusivity doesn't really make sense - I mean, while yes - there have always been the religious rejection of the Galileo's; churches were for centuries the ONLY source of education and likewise, you can point to all sorts of instances of monasteries, madrassas, etc being center of education and science... but like I said, if you just think it as pink science, the piety vs. blue science-in-the-pink-science tree SP does make sense... do you want to use pink science to boost blue science? Or - do you want more pink science bonuses at the cost of foregoing blue science bonuses?
     

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