1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Social Policies

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by WideCoast, Nov 19, 2013.

  1. WideCoast

    WideCoast Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Messages:
    163
    Hey!

    I was surfing around the net and found this:


    http://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/1enm6r/civilization_5_ultimate_faq_and_guide/

    And mostly I got interested in this part:


    """ What to avoid: Unfortunately, civilization 5's policies aren't at all balanced. A few are good, some are awful. Overall tips:
    1. Never go Honor. Some people always try to make it work, but high level players will always tell you the same thing; it cripples you and stunts your expansion. Exception: VERY early rushes (< turn 20)
    1. Never go Piety/Patronage. EDIT: They can be great too! Piety is often mandatory for culture wins and patronage is great too. But new players would improve simply by skipping them.
    3. Commerce is okay but its only worth it if Rationalism isn't unlocked. Otherwise, don't bother.

    What you SHOULD use:
    Tradition-Rationalism-Freedom (4 city science)
    Traditon/Liberty-Piety-Freedom-Tradition/Liberty-something (4 city culture victory, or if you just have a lot of culture)
    Liberty-Rationalism-Autocracy (military focused empire)

    Some more tips:

    1. Even if you decide to fill out Liberty, make sure you finish tradition if you're going for a small, tall empire (1-4 large cities).
    2. Rationalism is the best tree, and must always be filled out. Closing it gets you 2 free technologies, so time that policy with your research for maximum efficiency. You can leave it unfinished and close it later too for 2 late-game techs. Example: finish Rat and use it to get Telecom and Globalization free to build UN for Diplo victory.
    3. Although I didn't mention it earler, Order is great too if you have a wide empire and you don't plan on winning domination. Planned Economy is awesome for science output. It just works on anything, you can substitute it anywhere.
    4. Every new city you own makes policies cost much more. Stick to 3-4 for best efficiency. Puppets don't count, but razed cities do. Never raze cities if you're going culture.
    5. Patronage is great to open and get Aesthetics. Then, if you pledge to protect you have indefinite friendship from city states! Don't go deeper unless you're playing Siam/Greece though.
    6. Piety is great but only if you're going for a culture victory. Otherwise, its not worth it since its nerf in G&K. Then again, you might be able to make good use of it. """

    So I was wondering how's it now in BNW?
    Rationalism still the best one and should allmost always be taken?
    Tradition-Rationalism-Freedom for 4 city-science victory?
    Tradition/Liberty-Piety-Freedom for 4 city-culture?
    And then Liberty-Rationalism-Autocrary(for military)/Order for what? :D Diplo win? Since there's already 4citySV, 4cityCV and then CV.
    ^making wide empires go domination if they wanna win over others? :/
    And since I like water themed and wide civ's am I gonna give others edge if I want to pick Exploration? for e.g. Liberty-Exploration-Order(if I don't wanna lay the smack on others) and what VC would be best for that?

    Or did I perhaps misunderstand smthng? :p

    Cheers

    WideCoast
     
  2. Wojciech Rodzik

    Wojciech Rodzik Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2013
    Messages:
    43
    A lot of changes.

    Premise is still the same = rationalism is still most importand
     
  3. WideCoast

    WideCoast Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Messages:
    163
    Okay, thx for the answer! =)

    So Rationalism>Exploration even with an empire which has many coastal cities?
     
  4. Ninakoru

    Ninakoru A deity on Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2002
    Messages:
    658
    Location:
    Madrid, Spain, Europe
    Rationalism now is less powerful, but still a no-brainer. Whatever approach you will make, Tradition is nearly a no-brainer too. The usual extra policies until rationalism are usually used on Commerce to get to mercantilism, or Patronage to scholaiticm or consulates.

    Honor is worst than ever, including very early rushes: liberty is much better for warmongering.

    Aesthetics is nice but is mostly used for culture victories, I guess it has other uses as the culture boost is good to get more tenets later.
     
  5. Deau

    Deau Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,367
    Location:
    Quebec, Can
    Everything culture related is outdated.

    Trad or liberty exclusive unless you play as poland or react to an isolated start on large landmass. There are usually 0-3 policies hetween closing either opener tree and renaissance and you can typically add anotther point or two between ideologies as most people save rationalism finishr for super late game. The natural choices as stated above are commerce to mercantilism typically if you ought to go order or autocrcy as it scales up with width of empire. Conversely, scholasticism is more powerful for smaller empires. However, piety and explo for just a few points can each prove to be valid SP dumps alternatives to patronage and commerce. They are just far more specific
     
  6. Deau

    Deau Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,367
    Location:
    Quebec, Can
    I forgot. Freedom is also definitely not the generic ideology pick. Order is far more flexible and suitable to a wider range of VCs and empire setups
     
  7. Wojciech Rodzik

    Wojciech Rodzik Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2013
    Messages:
    43
    Freedom beats Order in cultural and possibly science victories.
     
  8. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    2,917
    assuming you have BNW, there have been way too many changes since that was written for it to be useful. It wasn't even that great advice at the time (I actually commented on some of the things I disagreed with at the time).

    In general I would recommend taking strategy advice from r/civ with a grain of salt. I am pretty active on there, and can safely say the general knowledge level is well below that of CivFanatics.
     
  9. tommynt

    tommynt Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,814
    no

    Order is by far best I Tree, there are like 6 very good policies
     
  10. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    8,621
    Location:
    Missouri
    Freedom is more flexible than Order.

    Freedom has the best diplomatic policy in the game. (Free influence every turn from city states in which you have a trade route; by then you won't care that the cash is less than what major AIs give.) Order has nothing.

    Freedom continues to have an edge over Order in space race; it's still easier to find 10K gold than it is to spawn 5 GEs late. (And pre-patch; it was even easier to find 5K gold)

    Order continues to have an edge over Freedom in cultural victories.

    Both Freedom & Order have massive happiness bonuses; Freedom mostly gets it from specialists (Tall empires); Order gets it from buildings (wide empires). It's a bit easier to get "Suma Tablets for everyone" with Order.

    Order has a couple of options for war-monglers. Freedom has nothing. (True war monglers probably prefer Autocracy)

    Autocracy's best at both Domination and a Conquest-induced Cultural victory (capture somebody's World Wonders with theming bonuses and relocate Great Works into them while wiping cultural leaders off the map)
    It also has a policy that helps with diplomatic victory (gunboat diplomacy); but requires you to have your army everywhere to really take advantage of.
     
  11. WideCoast

    WideCoast Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Messages:
    163
    Man, this site is even better than I thought it would be! :D Thanks! =)

    And sowwy for being a bit stubborn maybe, but since I'd like to grow a wide coastal empire, would it be detrimental to go for Liberty -> Exploration (- Navigation School) -> and maybe then go for Rationalism, since it seems to be pretty good?

    Since if we take a fish resource at coats for e.g. +1Food(Coast)+1Food(Fish) then we add there Fishingboat+1Food(and maybe Gods of the Sea +1Production, which I was planning on trying out), which nets out +3Food and 1Production.

    Lighthouse -> +1Food+1Production = 4Food and 2Production.

    Seaport -> +1Production+1Gold = 4Food, 3Production, 1Gold, which is a 8tile yield.

    Then if we fill out that Exploration we get +3Happiness and +3Gold on top of those, which sounds to me pretty good or am I wrong? (It nets to -3Gold thought, because of maintenance costs, except for carthage for free harbours so it means +/-0Gold).
     
  12. tommynt

    tommynt Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,814
    U dont need "flexible" sp but good ones.

    Order got good ones Freedom not, you gave an good example of a crap sp in freedom ...

    Order gives really everything, bonus to science, happynes, gold and EVEN Production

    U may just believe me because I udnerstand the game while many others dont ..
     
  13. Y0UR

    Y0UR Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    Imo on higher difficulty levels (immortal-deity), it mostly comes down to your neighbours and your civ. You don't want to go too wide, if you have some warmongers nearby, since you most likely won't be able to take them on.

    These are the strategies that usually work out well for me:

    (science)
    Full tradition -> Rationalism -> Freedom
    Cookie cutter science strat. Play tall (3-4 cities, a few more later if still space left), go for NC, try to grab a few science wonders, later focus on specialists ( +2science/spec, 0.5food/spec, +0.5hap/spec, if you grab statue of liberty +1prod/spec). Usually you also end up with tons of gold.

    (culture/diplomatic)
    Full tradition -> Patronage -> Freedom+Aestetics
    Similar to the first one, but with the focus on culture and tourism. Works well with greece, france etc. Weak on the military side

    (diplomatic)
    Full tradition -> Commerce -> Freedom/Anything!
    Best played with venice or austria. Overall a very solid and strong strat, with tons of gold and big armies from the citystate purchases.

    (anything)
    Liberty->Piety->???->Order
    Wide/ICS strat. Massive unhappiness countered by religion, order and liberty bonuses. Any victory type possible, by chosing the fitting reformation belief. Rough at start, spreading a lot often provokes other civilizations. Can be used in your favor with certain beliefes however (Shoshones + faith on kill + 20% combat strength within borders ). Also often ends up with huge -GOLD (exceptions: egypt/arabia)

    I didn't get to play around successfully with exploration yet. Neither with autocracy. Honor or Freedom work out much more smoother imo.
    And imo on higher difficulty levels, picking honor is non-viable. You will get either wiped out OR/AND left behind science, population, happiness and culture wise OR/AND everyone will hate you.
     
  14. FeiLing

    FeiLing Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Messages:
    2,076
    5 month old reddit, all posted there is for G&K.

    So... they were damn wrong concerning Patronage at the very least ;)
     
  15. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2003
    Messages:
    5,251
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hidden Underground Volcano Lair
    Cash price of spaceship parts under Freedom is ~3K. This can be lowered with Commerce picks.

    Freedom is good for a few tall cities running full specialist slots. Its not for every situation especially since you will get bumped out of it if too many other civs go order.

    Since Order it the popular AI pick, this tells me Freedom is superior.

    SoL is on the way to Labs. The other buildings are in bad spots on the tree.
     
  16. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    2,917
    agree about order being the best overall ideology. Freedom can be good, and definitely has the best wonder, but just doesn't have as many really solid tenets as order does.
     
  17. joshua43214

    joshua43214 King

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    985
    I like Freedom in 1 or 2 city empires, 2 cities seems to be the cross-over point where going either Freedom or Order is map dependent. Order is better almost all the time for 3 or more cities unless you plan to get the free CS's and the SoL from Freedom. Freedom is especially powerful in Korea OCC games or Venice. Unless you have one of those god-awful hammer starved vast expanse of jungle or grassland, it is very hard to beat the factory tenet from Order for pretty much any victory condition.

    Other than that, tradition and rationalism are almost no brainers with fillers in commerce or patronage depending on who is on the map.
     
  18. Antarion

    Antarion Prince

    Joined:
    May 24, 2004
    Messages:
    333
    this isnt true ofc, its neither black or white. order is good for going wider, about grabbing as much land as possible. the biggest disadvantages with order is the world congress, and no you will not have the money to compensate either a full autocracy diplomatic player (who will either get the biggest steady plus with city states per turn like 5,6) or a freedom follower who has his spies, gifts of units and trade routes (good for morocco n venice).

    science wise freedom is only as good as order if u have settled some academies with the freedom tenets which boosts great persons tiles. production wise freedom will be much weaker this is where order SHOULD shine (and since unit spamm can lead to big advantages during war this makes a order player often more sucessful in late game war). culture wise imho order sucks if u loose control in the WC and your opponents ban luxuries u count on. then the trouble starts.
     
  19. Vaclac

    Vaclac Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2012
    Messages:
    58
    The only part you need to be rush-building though is the one you unlock with the last tech you need, everything else should have been built by then. And the Order free GE can rush for that. What I actually do is 8 Freedom policies until I'm almost done the second last tech needed, then switch to order, and pick 6 policies for the Order science policy with the free GS and GE. Bulb the last tech I need and rush the last part. Does anyone else do this?
     
  20. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Messages:
    2,917
    wait a sec, are you saying that if you switch ideologies you get to re-select the same number of tenets you had, for free?
     

Share This Page