[vanilla] Social Policy: Liberty (vanilla)

[slobberinbear]

slobberinbear submitted a new resource:

Social Policy: Liberty - Social Policy: Liberty

Liberty
A closer look at the social policy branch​

Introduction

Liberty is one of the three social policy branches available in the ancient era, and generally the strongest of those three in most game situations, the only exception being a one city challenge game.

The Policies

• ...

Read more about this resource...

 

[Ellye]

I find it also worth mentioning that Representation works retroactively, contrary to what the policy text might seem to imply (i.e. it reduces the additional policy cost even for cities settled before you pick up the policy).

 

[MadDjinn]

I find it also worth mentioning that Representation works retroactively, contrary to what the policy text might seem to imply (i.e. it reduces the additional policy cost even for cities settled before you pick up the policy).

It's less 'retroactive' and more 'dynamically adjusted'.

You never get culture back, but the cost of every new policy will be reduced, including the current one.

 

[KiffeLesBiffles]

Due to exponentially increasing social policy costs

It is not exponential, just quadratic.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=389702&page=5

 

[mr_happyguy]

Thank God it's not exponential - forget about aquiring new policies with more than two cities

 

[vexing]

It is not exponential, just quadratic.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=389702&page=5

quadratic is exponential, and it's 2.01 to be precise, not 2.0

 

[KiffeLesBiffles]

quadratic is exponential, and it's 2.01 to be precise, not 2.0

Really, you mean x->x² = x->exp(x) ? You are revolutioning all math!

More seriously, exponiantial would be "increase the next policy cost by 10% compare to the current post". For instance, if P is the number of the policy,
Cost = Constant*(1+0,1)^P is exponential

contrary to that :
Cost = (Constant1+constant2*P)^2.01 is polynomial (ok almost quadratic)

 

[vexing]

you're correct mathematically, but i was using the non math definition of exponential, ie "involving an exponent." i don't think anyone says "polynomially increasing."

 

[The_J]

No nitpicking please.

 

[weregamer]

Sadly, not a nitpick. The question of whether the increase was exponential (adding a city multiplies the previous total by 1.3, each policy costs 1.3 times the previous policy) vs linear (adding a city increases the amount by which the original total is multiplied by .3, each policy costs an additional .3 of the original policy cost) was a burning one in early strategy discussions, because it makes an enormous difference in what strategies work.

If policy costs were exponential, culture wins would be basically impossible with more than 2-3 cities. As they only increase linearly, the number of cities you want becomes part of a larger strategic calculation. I forget whether it was here or at Apolyton, but there was a lovely post analyzing the turns-to-next-policy affect of founding a new city based on all the variables - current number of policies, current number of cities, average culture per current city, culture output from the new city.

 

[ggmoyang]

Tradition
A hybrid tradition/liberty approach can be highly beneficial for civilizations that can abuse Tradition's Legalism, such as Egypt, Siam and Songhai. Due to exponentially increasing social policy costs, it takes significantly longer to finish both branches than to finish one, so with other civilizations it's generally advisable to just go for one branch or the other.

Obviously he is saying policy cost is exponentially increasing with #of policy adopted.

Representation
Each city you found will increase the Culture cost of policies by 33% less than normal. Also starts a Golden Age.
Requires: Citizenship

Reduces the standard size 15% per city social policy cost increase to 10%. With four cities, this reduces the total social policy cost increase by about 10%; the more cities the larger the reduction. The standard golden age is useful for speeding up critical early city production and a minor early gold boost

And he is right about this also. 4-city policy cost 145% -> 130%, about 10%.
If he thought it was exponential it would be 152.1% -> 133.1%, about 12.5%, or 1/8 - so he would rather wrote as 'about 10% at 3 cities'

So OP wrote nothing wrong. Plz read again carefully. (no sarcarsm)


Btw I think this is nitpicking - this is not a math class and people usually use term 'exponential' as 'skyrocketing' or similar terms.

 

[elprofesor]

I don't think discussing whether *trying to correct someone using "exponentially" in an inappropiate way* is nitpicking will move this conversation anywhere, so let's just stop discussing it.
As ggmoyang said, Slopperinbear refered to the cost of successive social policies, which do increase exponentially, so he used the term correctly in the mathematical sense.

 

[vexing]

the finisher should have [set_anchor=Finisher] instead of what it has.

 

[The_J]

the finisher should have [set_anchor=Finisher] instead of what it has.

Thanks, fixed .

 

[skyclad]

Sorry for perhaps a stupid question, but does conquered cities with courthouses get the decrease in policy cost from representation? Thanks for the clarification that it works retroactively.

 

[mintcandy]

I understand that Gods and Kings placed a prerequisite Social Policy for Collective Rule...any chance that this article could be updated to reflect that change?

 

[scheva007]

Question/dilemma. I always do the following: i go for citizenship and representation, to minimize the effects on policy costs when i found a new city. downside of this is that i achieve collective rule rather late, and so miss out 1-2 times on the 50% bonus when making settlers, and found cities not as early as i could have (missing out on hammers and gold)

so which is the best option of the two? go for citizenship-representation? and getting the free worker along with a golden age and reduced policy cost?
or go for the republic-collective rule? being able to expand quickly but with increased policy costs?


thanks

 

[vexing]

representation only causes minimal differences in early policy costs so go for the settler first. also having more established cities prior to popping the golden age increases the benefit of that

 

[Carl5872]

Any ETA on when these War Academy articles will be updated for Gods and Kings?

 

[ArchyDarky]

representation only causes minimal differences in early policy costs so go for the settler first. also having more established cities prior to popping the golden age increases the benefit of that

I've overlooked this so long . I need to make it a habit to pick the free settler first.