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Some differences Europe/USA

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Whomp, May 29, 2008.

  1. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity Retired Moderator

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    This thread reminds me of that "Black Swan" thread you made once, Whomp
     
  2. Lillefix

    Lillefix I'm serious. You can.

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    This is a perfect example of what I said. Race isn't a real concern. It is a concern because amricans make it a concern. Americans are lightyears behind europeans on this point.
     
  3. I'm Cleo!

    I'm Cleo! Deity

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    I think the article misses the fact that race has been the defining factor in American politics for at least a generation. Less than thirty years ago, Ronald Reagan kicked off his Presidential campaign at the site of a famous lynching. And interesting data from AceChilla on economic mobility in the U.S. and European countries.

    But it's the Hoover Institute, a right-wing think tank. It's going to be from an American right-wing perspective.

    Cleo
     
  4. Grisu

    Grisu Draghetto Retired Moderator

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    and on and on it goes.... ;)
     
  5. Bronx Warlord

    Bronx Warlord Squad Leader

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    If we are going to begin finger pointing at history it's not much of anarguement. Winner pointed out the ACW and Gencide of the Native Americans.

    I simply offer the actions of the Spanish and British Empire as a counter point. Case closed.

    As far as racisim? It's everywere, US and Europe. Just like . .. .. .. .. .. .. .. . wich this obvious op-ed peice is full of in many regards
     
  6. Bronx Warlord

    Bronx Warlord Squad Leader

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    Have Americans within still living memory put millions into various " working camps " and have them never come out? Key part, living memory. Last " official " genocide? what was once Yugoslavia, I'm sure you know were that is located.
     
  7. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

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    If you want people to bring up gitmo, just ask ;)
     
  8. I'm Cleo!

    I'm Cleo! Deity

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    Bronx Warlord,

    Americans within living memory did place all people of Japanese descent into concentration camps. And for twenty years after that, there was state-sanctioned apartheid in some of our country, and lots of people were killed trying to get rid of it.

    By no means does it rise to the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, but it's not all puppy dogs and rainbows on our side of the pond.

    Cleo
     
  9. Bronx Warlord

    Bronx Warlord Squad Leader

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    The people at gitmo have better medical care and shelter than I do as a deployed Marine. They have religious freedom and are held in a tropical enviroment. I have little pitty for them considering I personally helped put several of them there who were trying to kill me and my fellow Marines.
     
  10. Bronx Warlord

    Bronx Warlord Squad Leader

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    Are you seriously compareing he internment of Japanese Americans and the American Civil Rights movement to say... what went on in Poland during the first half of the 40's?

    Thats a weak comparison. Extremely.
     
  11. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

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    Its not as bad no, but put your hands up; it was an appalling thing to do, drop the US exceptionalism, it was horrendous.
     
  12. Verbose

    Verbose Deity

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    I think one of the assumptions of this post, which is similar to the assumption in the article in the OP, is somehow very American:

    That there is this "Europe" which can even be talked about in the same general terms as the US can.

    That's a premise in the article in the OP afaics. Probably a faulty one. Just like pestering Europeans in general about the Yugoslavian break up. All that ellicits is a "Huh, what are you on about?" from most Europeans. Europe just doesn't work like that.

    When people are blown to tiny bloody shreds in Madrid or London, people in Stockholm will go "Oh, that's terrible", but they in no way feel directly implicated or threatened, since it happened "somewhere else".

    Get a terrorist attack, or a just a sniper killing people at random, in the US, and a great many Americans feel directly threatened since it it happening "here in the US", even if it refers to things happening on the other side of the continent.

    Europeans feel for their neighbours when they get hit by bad stuff, but don't feel in any way implicated simply on the basis of all involved being "European". Neither do they feel responsible to the actions of their neighbours. Why should they?
     
  13. I'm Cleo!

    I'm Cleo! Deity

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    Bronx Warlord,

    Why would you think I was? Is it because I wrote:

    Seriously, who are you arguing against?

    Cleo
     
  14. Lillefix

    Lillefix I'm serious. You can.

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    I think someone should teach Bronx the difference between democracy and dictatorship
     
  15. knowltok2

    knowltok2 Deity

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    Yup.

    What is fascinating to me is the two Europeans debating their own sexism / racism. Neither seems to be able to admit that they can both be right within their own experience, and that because of that it might not be as bad/good as they think it is.

    The same is true here as well. Anecdotal evidence will support any theory you want on race and sex relations because those relations are so complex as to defy individual interpretation without some kind of scientific studies.

    Honestly I think that Europeans and Americans have much to learn from each other. That isn't to say that one system can be picked up and put down on the other side of the ocean and work perfectly, but that there are lessons that can be learned if we are willing to work to understand them.

    This thread doesn't exactly foster hope for that.
     
  16. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity Retired Moderator

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    That's a great argument to prove your country rocks.
     
  17. Bronx Warlord

    Bronx Warlord Squad Leader

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    :lol: " not as bad "

    A bit of an understatement don't you think?

    " During 1942 and 1943 further camps Auschwitz-Birkenau II, part of Majdanek, Treblinka, Bełżec and Sobibor were built for this purpose. Jews from other concentration camps, and from the ghettos, were transported to them from all over occupied Europe. In these six camps alone, an estimated 3.1 million Jews were killed in gas chambers and the bodies burned in massive crematoria. "

    opposed to

    " almost 120,000 removed and relocated from there homes "

    according to a few minutes of research. Both figures from wikipedia.

    " not as bad "

    And Verbose, when you refer to yourself as Europeans ( and not French, German, Italian or even further subdivisions like Norman, Basq, Scillian ect. ) and form a union... it happens. Sorry but that is just the way it is.
     
  18. Bronx Warlord

    Bronx Warlord Squad Leader

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    Indeed. We take people that will kill us by any means they can and take great care of them. Far better than what they get in there own countries. Little known fact about Gitmo... many are asking to stay there so they do not have to face say... Saudi justice. You think courts in the west are ruff? :lol:

    So yes, America does indeed rock. We take better care of our enemies than we do our own Servicemembers or citizens. Surely you can see the humanity in such.
     
  19. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

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    Yes an understatement. Its not in the same planet of badness. But just because you can find something relatively worse dosent excuse US behavior. Jeffrey Dahlmer didnt get off cause his bodycount wasnt as high as Harold shipmans.
     
  20. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

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    and occasionaly you rape 14 YO girls and kill their families. but this seems to have bypassed you
     

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