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Some differences Europe/USA

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Whomp, May 29, 2008.

  1. sonorakitch

    sonorakitch Overseas hunter

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    Yes...and some would argue these poor working environments exist because of their ethnicity.

    To my knowledge, the rioters were not of French ethnic origin (or at least the vast, vast majority), were relatively young, and relatively poor. I think I'm right on that.

    I remember arguing this same stuff years ago with some. How the connection between ethnicity, and thus "racism" cannot be wholly connected with the Paris riots is quite strange to me.

    ~Chris
     
  2. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

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    Might I reimind you that this is absolutely wrong.
     
  3. mrt144

    mrt144 Deity

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    Libertarian think tank. and it's The Hoover Institution.
     
  4. I'm Cleo!

    I'm Cleo! Deity

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    mrt144,

    Libertarian. Exactly -- an American right-wing perspective. Just because it's not socially conservative doesn't mean it's not right-wing. Their "visiting fellows" include Donald Rumsfeld, Newt Gingrich, Ed Meese, and Pete Wilson.

    Apologies for the name.

    Cleo
     
  5. mrt144

    mrt144 Deity

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    One of my family members works there so I'm hyper aware of them
     
  6. Mise

    Mise isle of lucy

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    Now that you say that it's Libertarian, the entire article makes perfect sense...

    Oh, and, this thread went downhill real fast. Which doesn't surprise me, but does disappoint me. When will we be able to have a thread on EU and US differences without it degenerating into one side bashing the other?

    Although, to be fair, the article didn't help, given that it was heavily biased, and probably intended to rile Europeans...
     
  7. Masquerouge

    Masquerouge Deity

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    You are right, but you decide to say that the motivating factor was "ethnicity" when it was "poverty". There were a lot of people from the Maghreb and other parts of African that did not riot. The rioters are just a tiniy minority of the immigrant population.

    If it was only tied to ethnicity, as you pretend/believe, why didn't ALL the immigratns rioted? Why weren't the wealthy immigrants on the streets?
     
  8. knowltok2

    knowltok2 Deity

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    You pretty much called him a liar. You said what he said is not true. Thus false. How you can arrive at that conclusion based on conversations with just people you know, and not with the people he knows is beyond me.
     
  9. sonorakitch

    sonorakitch Overseas hunter

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    If France is anything like the US, popular opinion lies in the idea that poverty, for whatever reason, is associated with ethnicity. Whether it be lack of opportunity, education, exclusion, or introduced ethic, the idea is there. Therefore, I would think the idea that the riots, which were perpretrated mostly by ethnic immigrants, were not an ethnic issue would be incorrect.

    ~Chris
     
  10. knowltok2

    knowltok2 Deity

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    No, obviously you can't. We didn't kill anywhere near as many people with 2 atomic bombs as the Germans, Soviets, Japanese, Turks, Rwandans, Chinese, Cambodians, etc. did. You'd have to elevate nuclear attack to a level much higher than killing masses and masses of people in more pedestrian (if sometimes industrial) ways.

    No black fighting units? Are you just making this stuff up?

    Army:

    92nd Infantry Division
    U.S. 366th Infantry Regiment
    93d Infantry Division
    555th Parachute Infantry Battalion
    761st Tank Battalion
    332d Fighter Group (Tuskegee Airmen)
    614th Tank Destroyer Battalion

    United States Marine Corps:

    51st Defense Battalion. (Composite)
    52nd Defense Battalion. (Composite)


    Agreed.
     
  11. Brighteye

    Brighteye intuitively Bayesian

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    I can't speak for France, but I suspect that it isn't that much like the US, which is a point I've been trying to make about England (which, as part of Europe, was rather bashed by the opening article).
    Here people don't automatically link things to race as much. It's not as much of a problem or issue; people focus on poverty itself.
     
  12. knowltok2

    knowltok2 Deity

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    On those french riots...What I saw at the time and what I have since read indicates that some form of racial-imigrant-etc. status did have a bearing on the riots.

    Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard that in France it is illegal to take statistics with racial components, so I wonder how it is that anyone can say conclusively that the issue was not in any way tied to ethnicity.
     
  13. sonorakitch

    sonorakitch Overseas hunter

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    I know that until recently, your cousins on the continent referred to the UK as the 51st state.:)

    From my albeit singular experiences throughout Europe, there are far more similarities between the UK and US than the rest of Europe.

    ~Chris
     
  14. storealex

    storealex In service of peace

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    "Europeans, on the other hand, consider that an invasion of privacy. They believe their first name belongs to them, and that no one else has the right to use it without their permission."

    Huh? Only place I've encountered that is in the army...
     
  15. mrt144

    mrt144 Deity

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    Europeans believe black socks with shorts is acceptable fashion.
     
  16. Masquerouge

    Masquerouge Deity

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    I'm not so sure I would trust "popular opinion in an idea" on that matter. But hey, I've said what I had to say, you said what you had to say, we didn't convince each other, so there :)

    It works the other way, too. How can you say the riots were tied to ethnicity, when it is indeed not allowed to gather statistics with racial components?
     
  17. Steph

    Steph Multi Many Tasks man Retired Moderator

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    First, people from North Africa are not all Arabs, arabs are from Arabia.

    Second, the riot was not because of their ethnicity, and it was not arabs only. All ethnicity from the suburbs were represented.
     
  18. knowltok2

    knowltok2 Deity

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    Well, I'm not, at least definitively. I do know what I've heard and read, and based on this that and the other (eye witness accounts, demographics of the neighborhoods in question, etc.) it seems reasonable enough that I find it surprising when someone claims that the riots definitely were not ethnic based.
     
  19. Bamspeedy

    Bamspeedy CheeseBob

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    And how many hispanics are there in the UK compared to the US?

    I will say the UK and US are comparable (pretty much equal) to interracial marriages, even without counting hispanics. I was merely stomping the "Interracial marriages are far more common in the UK than the US" rhetoric. (both have at least 2% of marriages that are interracial, the US more depending on how what definitions you use to calculate the stats).
     
  20. Steph

    Steph Multi Many Tasks man Retired Moderator

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    If you ave a suburb with 50% people with an origin in Maghreb, 30% from Black Africa, and 20% "white" French... Something make them angry... Some riots... In the rioters, you have 50% Maghrebins, 30% black, and 20% white..
    The majority are "arabs". Does it make racist riots?
    If you say so, you should also think that Katrina was a racist huricane?
     

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