Some general advice for Greece

Estebanium

Prince
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Oct 16, 2014
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Hi guys, I've been playing Civilization for a very long time, but the game's level has increased a lot since the community patch. I play on King and while missed to found a religion or being good in any other discipline, I would like to get some feedback in order to enhance my play stile.

I have the feeling that I have to get bigger in order not to lose the lead even further. However, I tried to attack Theodora east of me, but she was able to fend off my attack very well from her territory. So I loaded the save game before I attacked her. Then I thought that I could attack Casimir in the north. What do you mean? Maybe you have some other ideas or some tips I didn't even think about while playing.

I added an album on imgur, I don't want to resize all images to fit into my post: Link

I look forward to your feedback.
 
The first thing that comes to my mind is the era you're in. Since you're Greece, did you go aggressive early game? If I was playing Greece, I'd go for Bronze Working as soon as I can and Authority. I'd go for the Statue of Zeus and use that to get me some early conquests. I don't know if you played against Hoplites early game but they are a nightmare to deal with, especially if you have a couple of them supported by a few Archers. Now, you might be worried about settling cities too late. One key thing to know is that you can always raze your enemy's cities and settle your own later. While your enemy is struggling to survive, you can produce your own Settlers and establish your own cities. Of course, this is the early game where Greece is arguably its most powerful.

For your current situation, how are your relations with CS? That's another one of your strength and being so close with a couple of them can really help. You went Tradition which's an interesting choice. I'm not saying it's bad but I generally always go Authority for Greece unless I'm isolated where Progress is better. Since you went Tradition, you don't want to get bigger. Why? Tradition promotes a tall play more than a wide play since your capital is the main focus. If you want to go to war, I'd go for the city in Northern Italy. Why? It's relatively easy to defend and, if you go Statecraft and secure alliances with all the CS in the area, then you'd be in a good position to fend off a lot of attacks. After that city is taken, I'd turtle up and work on getting further ahead. I personally wouldn't go attack Poland or Byzantium because, even if you do take their cities, you'll have a huge front to defend. Militarily wise, you are going to grow weaker than your Authority and Progress counterparts when it comes to wide fronts. If you can have numerous choke points and use fewer but more advanced units, you'd be shocked how much easier it is to defend against your enemies. I hope this helped a little.
 
What a coincidence...I just happen to be playing Greece myself right now :)

Anyway....first of all I think Greece is a pretty war-based civ. Your UB gets Culture from kills. You get an early UU that is excellent at demanding Tributes, hunting barbs and warring early on. You get Combat Strength from City-State allies. So generally I open with Authority with this civ because this civ is largely about war.

You have already opened Tradition, though. I think you should check your build order. I think you're overprioritizing Aqueducts/Libraries in secondary cities. I'd say to rush Barracks ---> Arena ---> Forge (after Monuments/Councils/Shrine/Wells or Water Mills, of course). Libraries/Aqueducts can come after. You should probably have focused more on Drama/Poetry and Education, so you can unlock Acropolis and Sankore, as well as get Oxford.

You also missed Religion (or did you?) which is not good.

I think you just need to focus your game. Greece's strength is in Diplo/War...but you're a bit too small for that and it might be too late. I suppose you can go Culture, just don't miss the good stuff like Leaning Tower, Uffizi, Louvre, etc., rush Archaeology. Lacking Religion hurts you but not much you can do about it now....adopt somebody else's Religion and invest in it.
 
General Advice for Greece
Go Authority, research Bronze Working as your second tech. DO NOT RESEARCH THE WHEEL WHEN RUSHING SPEARMEN/HOPLITES. Try to have two warriors ready to upgrade quickly, save enough gold for it, then build a third hoplite. This should easily be enough to tribute city states, generally a unit needs to be within at least 8 tiles. You can get gold easily to build more hoplites, but you should try to get heavy tribute from culture and happiness city states. Statue of Zeus is an option here, and a good one since it gives a barracks and it can be a while before you unlock military theory. A happiness city state will give production, which can ensure you get Statue of Zeus, build a settler, or build a hoplite.

Whether I pursue a religion would depend on my starting location. What are your luxuries and pantheon options? If you can heavy tribute faith CS, you will be in good shape. If you have a ton of land to fight on, God of War is an option as well. Usually my plan will be to conquer a neighbor and take their holy city.

If your neighbors are hard to conquer in ancient era, its because you delayed hoplites. You can easily have hoplites at a neighbors cities before they have anything other than warriors, or maybe archers. Greece has an awkward mid-game because your unique building is away from all of the other military techs, so in medieval era you tend to be a bit behind in military. Long term, just keep killing while building up some allies and eventually you will come out ahead. Greece has a powerful late game.

On this start
Tradition isn't horrible but it means your long term strategy changes a lot. Your goal should be to found a tiny number of cities (maybe just one) and puppet other players cities. Your win condition is culture in the late game.
Is the 43 civs version? Religion is so hard because its 43 civs. I'd skip it unless my civ has extra faith. It also can make city states tough to get. Your neihbor Byzantium is guaranteed to get a religion, so I would conquer other neighbors first then go for her holy city.
 
I believe Greece UA helps demanding tribute more frequently? As greece I alway demand tribute hard from cullture/faith/happiness city state, and keep military/food city states as ally, and go to war non-stop.
 
Thank you for your replies. I think that I made some bad decisions related to Policies. I was looking more at the short-term effects, and so chose Tradition. At that point I somehow lost the connection to the other civs and I was still pretty small. I had a lot of problems to get a good start with Greece, because at the beginning I tried to get a religion. So first building was a Shrine, then I built a Monument. In my recent game I realized, that I need a better focus on selecting the right research. At first I went on Pottery to get Stonehenge. I missed it by 4 turns. Then I researched Trapping to get the archers and went on Mining. You have a good point at the Hoplites, but I have the feeling, that when I researched them it was already too late. Battles with Hoplites against other units didn't go so well. I don't think my knowledge edge was there to make my units feel strong.

I started a new game, with a modified version of Longer Eras - Historic. I need to tweak it a bit more, but here I am at a similar level of research as the others. Unfortunately I read your post after choosing Tradition again and while I am at the end of the Ancient Era, I feel the bad effects of choosing the wrong Policy Tree. This is an overview of my current game: Link

I missed a religion, this time I was one turn close to Stonehenge. Unfortunately I was not able to generate as much Religion as to found one. Moreover this map can be a lot of fun, but the starting position and the placed AI can make a huge difference in difficulty.
 
At first I went on Pottery to get Stonehenge. I missed it by 4 turns.
Sometimes I forget about the current game and just try again in the same escenario to find out if I can build the wonder I want. You have three hills surrounding Athens, it should be doable if the difficulty is not too high. Hints. Save gold for the wonder investment. Manually pick where to place your workers. Try different tech order (mining first, for example, with a worker for making some mines).
Naturally, after a 'learning session' you should play another game, otherwise, that's cheating. XD
 
I recently messed up terribly with Greece so not much helpful. But I can tell you what I messed. I over-expanded too quickly, too wide, kind of vertical kingdom formation, difficult to defend (I recommend spherical city formation, if possible), got drawn into prolonged stubborn wars with two strong warlords - Genghis Khan and Gustavo, and Egypt all at the same time. I lost tempo with these wars and didn't continue.

The reason I over-expanded was two-fold. First I wanted to use the Phalanx potency early. Second Isabella started building wonder after wonder so I decided to annex Madrid. Then made her a vassal but I made her too weak and left her cities in the perimeter where she cannot act as a buffer at all. She became liability later because I had to defend her city Barcelona which was very awkwardly placed geographically, while she was almost useless to me. On top of that I realized way later that Isabella doesn't have open borders with me...I thought that a vassal gets OB by default.
 
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You can enter your vassal's borders by default, but you have to offer Open Borders to your vassal to let them enter yours.
 
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