Some ideas for making the best of Civ VI

[Megalomano]

Hello guys! It took me some time to put this together, so here it goes. It's a compilation of some general ideas and mechanics i would like to see in the next game.

Let me know your opinion (very important).

1) Don't start from zero

Spoiler :

BASIC IDEA: Keep the best concepts (espionage, trade routes, religion, social policies, ideologies, victory conditions, etc.) from the last Civilization games and work from there for future expansions.

I don't think people is going to be happy if the game feels incomplete and dull (as Civilization V was before the expansion packs).

Super simplistic gameplay was O.K to attract new players, but it doesn't make the game better or more fun in my opinion.

2) Supply system

BASIC IDEA: As some people have suggested the best way to deal with the stacks/carpets of doom is a system that is flexible enough to let you make stacks with a strategical cost (example: the more units, the more "supply" consumed).

Units should be able to die in the desert if you leave them long enough with no supplies (unless it has a unique ability). It makes the game more realistic and interesting (imagine the poor aztecs trying to survive in a cold Siberian land with those togs).

POSSIBLE BENEFITS:

+ Realism, players with bad (extreme) terrains would have some kind of natural defense as compensation, no more carpet/stack of doom (the best of all).

POSSIBLE PROBLEMS:

An incapable A.I


3) A more flexible/realistic luxury, resource system (included my own idea)

BASIC IDEA: Getting luxuries and resources in-game becomes very situational and requires either expansion, bribing city states or trading. You have little or no control because all of them are treated as "static" units.

- There are "static" goods:

Oil, uranium, and other minerals are static resources that need to be mined in place.

Deer, Ivory, fish, whales, etc. (hunting) should be treated as static resources as they are taken from very specific regions in the real world, and in most cases they cannot be transported or domesticated effectively.

NOTE: Static resources should be depleted if abused. Minerals should be revealed when you build bigger mines (see N°4 for the meaning of "bigger" mines)

-There are "dynamic" goods:

Bananas, silk and cotton can grow if the terrain is appropriate and can be transported by man (seeds).

Cattle and horses are even more dynamic as they can be transported and put into little spaces.

Instead of simple improvements (mines, farms) Workers should be able to build specific pastures (horses, cattle etc..), plantations (cotton, silk) and farms (wheat, rice) anywhere inside the civilization territory as long as the player has meet these requirements:

-The technology is available.
-The tile is appropriate (you can't grow bananas in the tundra). This applies until you can build greenhouses.
- You have already harvested some seeds, catched some horses, cattle (Will require new unit functions), or build the improvement directly into the resource prefered spot (they would still show up normally in the map).

If the resource is outside your borders and it is a static good, trade route units should be able to create colonial mines (for minerals), fishing expeditions, or hunting expeditions (i know the names are not very good).

NOTES: Having a varied diet in a city should give you a local food bonus. luxury variety (cotton, silk, etc..) should give you a local happiness bonus. You can trade seeds, cattle, and horses with other civilizations so they may "grow" their own.


POSSIBLE BENEFITS:

Effectively reduced the situational (and unrealistic) effect of some luxury resources. You don't have to to build a whole city to grow cotton or tobacco (or send a whole caravan), it is also possible to breed horses. Small empires won't be forced to expand or bribe city states to get their resources as they can breed/grow their own once they got what they need.

Exploration becomes important throughout the game as some plants and animals can benefit a civilization even if they are out of a city radious. Remember how the potatoes came from South America and now they are farmed around the planet (not traded by Pacal).

POSSIBLE PROBLEMS:

Some luxuries will lose their value pretty fast (dynamic) while other's don't (static). Some may consider it as unnecessary micromanagement.

4) A possible solution for the tall/wide empire problem: Progressive Improvements

BASIC IDEA: Civilizations with little terrain can be as powerful as larger ones in the real world. Why? Because a small patch of terrain can be worked in different ways. Some civilizations are optimal and some other's leave poor improvements. there are small mines, medium mines, huge industrial mines, modern mines, old mines, good farms, slave farms, etc.


NEW RULES (needed to make this work):

- There is no direct economic, cultural or happiness penalty for expanding nations.
- A single improvement can be upgraded by a worker many times (not just once) making the tile more productive every time.
- Better/Bigger farms = more food = larger population = tallest empire
- Improvement upgrades take more turns as you create more cities and improve the same tile over and over (BALANCE MECHANIC).
- Most of the absolute values (+1 food, etc..) are produced by the terrain itself and improvements. When a building produces an absolute number (+1 culture for example) it will depend on the city population (to prevent ICS becoming a no brainer).
- Great people can add attributes to the existing improvements without replacing them (extra culture, faith, etc.) and still have their other skills.


POSSIBLE BENEFITS:

Neither wide or tall civilizations are penalized. You can have a very tall and developed civilization from the start, or go wide and take your time to improve your terrain little by little. You may even choose to be small in the beginning and expand later, having a tall capital with small "support" cities.

POSSIBLE PROBLEMS:

Unknown. Good mathematicians would be needed to balance improvement upgrading times.

 

[Viregel]

I really like most of the ideas, but I'm not quite sure what to make of the last one. It seems interesting, but I don't quite understand it. Also, for the first one, if a lot of the concepts are included, this would reduce the amount of content in expansion packs. While I agree that a lot of the systems should be in Vanilla if they are seen as an essential part of the game, some of the more incomplete content should be kept for expansions. To be honest, the speculation for the expansions if one of my favourite parts of playing Civ, so I'm not sure if I could go without them.

 

[Megalomano]

Thanks for commenting =)

I really like most of the ideas, but I'm not quite sure what to make of the last one. It seems interesting, but I don't quite understand it.

In short, a single tile can be upgraded multiple times (not just once). For example:

- A worker finishes a farm in 5 turns (standard speed) farm gives +1 food
- A worker upgrades the same farm, this time the upgrade takes 10 turns but the tile now gives +2 food and so on.

You make taller/stronger cities by making "taller" improvements (buildings still help with % modifiers).

This would give you a lot of flexibility for your expansion as you can settle:

- Super capitals by focusing on its radius most of the game (Ex: 40 size city that generates as much production and gold as a wide empire)
- a small number of super cities
- A large number of specialized (low population) cities (Ex: Size 8 cities that focus on production, gold, etc..).

Wide empires would eventually go tall, but not as tall as super cities as maintenance, number of workers and the turns it takes to get the terrain upgrades would act as natural limiting factors (no more penalties to culture, gold, science or happiness for new cities).

 

[Megalomano]

Also, for the first one, if a lot of the concepts are included, this would reduce the amount of content in expansion packs. While I agree that a lot of the systems should be in Vanilla if they are seen as an essential part of the game, some of the more incomplete content should be kept for expansions. To be honest, the speculation for the expansions if one of my favourite parts of playing Civ, so I'm not sure if I could go without them.

You have a good point, they shouldn't include everything in Vanilla, but at least the basics of any other systems such as espionage, trade routes and religion. They would still be able to expand those systems or include new ones. the number and quality of expansions shouldn't change, there are a lot of cool ideas out there

 

[ShadowWarrior]

This is about your idea on tall vs wide empire.

Just to make sure I understand you correctly, you are suggesting two mechanisms that will force us to choose between tall and wide empire.

The first mechanism comes from the fact that each level of terrain improvement upgrade requires longer time. For example, when a worker builds a farm on a totally undeveloped land tile, that workers needs 5 turns to do this job. For the worker to upgrade this farm in the same land tile (which will increase food yield by one), the worker will now need to spend 10 turns. For the worker to upgrade the farm yet again to the next level, it will take 15 turns! Wide empire players may not like to wait that long to increase the yield, especially if they find themselves in a more geographically favorable circumstance in which there is little to impede their expansion through settlement of new cities. For such players who do not wish to wait, they may rather build the farms and mines on each land tile without spending the time to upgrade them. For tall players, especially those who are geographically trapped, developing land tile improvements to the next levels are sometimes the only choice they have.

Another mechanism that you are suggesting that will force us to choose between wide and tall is that the more cities one has the longer it will take to upgrade each land tile improvement. For example, Civ A has only one city, and Civ B has three cities. Civ A, with only one city, can improve a farm to the next level in 5 turns. Civ B, with more cities than Civ A, will take 8 turns to improve the same farm to the next level. This forces us to choose between tall and wide because if we choose wide from the beginning, it will actually be quite difficult later on to switch to tall.

Am I understanding you correctly?

May I also suggest that each upgrade will cause some increase in happiness? This will alleviate the problem of not having access to luxury resources for tall empires.

 

[Glassmage]

Terrible ideas. Civ5 did it right with being simple and fun.

 

[otaman1]

These are some great ideas but the micromanagement is just way too much. That is the reason why I never know how to play Paradox's games.

 

[Infantry#14]

3) A more flexible/realistic luxury, resource system (included my own idea)

- There are "static" goods:

Oil, uranium, and other minerals are static resources that need to be mined in place.

Deer, Ivory, fish, whales, etc. (hunting) should be treated as static resources as they are taken from very specific regions in the real world, and in most cases they cannot be transported or domesticated effectively.

NOTE: Static resources should be depleted if abused. Minerals should be revealed when you build bigger mines (see N°4 for the meaning of "bigger" mines)

-There are "dynamic" goods:

Bananas, silk and cotton can grow if the terrain is appropriate and can be transported by man (seeds).

Cattle and horses are even more dynamic as they can be transported and put into little spaces.

I like the idea of dynamic resources. One thing I want to add is that the worker has the ability to "herd" animal resources.

For example, there is a horse resource just outside your border. Every 20 turns, the horse can either stay on the same tile or "roam" to a random nearby tile. If you create a worker and has the tech animal husbandry, you can direct the direction of the roaming horse (the worker must spend exactly 20 turns to do so). After you have the horse at the desired location, your worker constructs a pasture on the tile and the horse cant move to nearby tiles anymore. Of course, your enemy can destroy the pasture and set the horses into motion again.

Of course, there should be restriction on movement. For example, horse and cattle can only move on open plain, grassland and plain tiles. Sheep can move onto open plain and hill, desert, plain and grassland tiles. Deer only on open plain or forest, tundra tiles.

Nomad civs such as mongolians and huns would take less amount of time to herd and build pastures at the cost of longer time in constructing farms.

 

[Ikael]

There are some really good ideas!

- Supply as a way to limit stacks seems like a good concept, but in need of been further ellaborated

- Dynamic resources sounds cool, but they must be carefully ballanced, or else you can have some seriously OP cities

- Vertical improvements: Yes, please

- I think that the whole adaptative terrain should be perhaps restricted to just 3 climate areas: "regular", tundra and desert, perhaps jungle, too. Otherwise, things could become really messy, I think