Tomice
Passionate Smart-Ass
The point about delaying obsolescence when the ressource requirement changes is VERY important! Should be fixed consistently, also for uniques.
Some observations when playing v3.13 & v3.14
- Thread starter Babri
- Start date
Ahriman
Tyrant
I think ships in general are probably too strong. I would say that ranged ships should be roughly similar to similar era archer units. But in practice they are significantly stronger.
I agree that some of the civs that start with an extra military unit have too much of a bonus.
Hp.... I'm not sure now. I haven't played for a while and need to try again after the city strength tweaks - before I think city strengths were a bit low and IIRC they were tweaked up, and this could have meant that the hp are too high. Not sure.
I agree that some of the civs that start with an extra military unit have too much of a bonus.
Hp.... I'm not sure now. I haven't played for a while and need to try again after the city strength tweaks - before I think city strengths were a bit low and IIRC they were tweaked up, and this could have meant that the hp are too high. Not sure.
ExpiredReign
Deity
100% on board with the whole "lacking a resource then you're screwed" argument.
If my empire is puny and doesn't have a lot of oil but heaps of horses then I should be able to build as many oil-based units as I can AND fill out my army with Dragoons or Lancers. How else can I have a fighting chance? Just because you CAN build a new unit doesn't mean you MUST build it.
Easiest way to fix this is just make ALL of the latest resource based units stay and don't become obsolete. Unique variants included.
If my empire is puny and doesn't have a lot of oil but heaps of horses then I should be able to build as many oil-based units as I can AND fill out my army with Dragoons or Lancers. How else can I have a fighting chance? Just because you CAN build a new unit doesn't mean you MUST build it.
Easiest way to fix this is just make ALL of the latest resource based units stay and don't become obsolete. Unique variants included.
Maybe a solution to the units becoming obsolete is to have certain units never become obsolete. For example the Longswordsmen unit is the last land unit that requires iron. Have that unit and any unique units in the same unit class never become obsolete. The exception would be if the new unit didn't require a resource, then the old unit could become obsolete.
Dragoons are the last horse unit and right now they are obsolete with Combustion. Have them never become obsolete so that civilizations without oil can build them. Lancers could become obsolete as long as you could still build something with those horses.
One potential problem is how the AI players would handle this. You don't want AIs building an army of Dragoons even though they could build tanks but they chose to build the cheaper units instead. Maybe it would be better to have Dragoons becoming obsolete being delayed a bit longer until a latter tech giving the player time to acquire oil and if they didn't do so after a long time then settling for an all infantry army. Just thinking out loud here
Dragoons are the last horse unit and right now they are obsolete with Combustion. Have them never become obsolete so that civilizations without oil can build them. Lancers could become obsolete as long as you could still build something with those horses.
One potential problem is how the AI players would handle this. You don't want AIs building an army of Dragoons even though they could build tanks but they chose to build the cheaper units instead. Maybe it would be better to have Dragoons becoming obsolete being delayed a bit longer until a latter tech giving the player time to acquire oil and if they didn't do so after a long time then settling for an all infantry army. Just thinking out loud here
If unit upkeep is set to allow for variation based on the unit, I'd be fine with the AI having the option to build dragoons when they run out of tank/BB slots. The AI should still prioritize the tanks over the dragoons, but if it went heavy on battleships say, it would still have some means of attacking with mobile forces. This is however not typically a problem.
In practical terms though I don't think this is that big of a problem that we need to worry about it other than the UU obsolescence questions. If I can't build tanks, I can still build infantry and gunships and artillery and MG/bazookas. Those are all typically more capable than dragoons are for most combat purposes, they're just slower and not as mobile but all hit harder and can be harder to kill, even if they're not tanks.
So... why would I want to build any dragoons or keep building them to upgrade them outside of some UU promotion? I can't think of any reason I would really. If the problem is I'm out of oil, there's ways around that (CS, conquest, expansion, deleting inexperienced BBs), but the solution isn't usually going to be "I will build a large horse-drawn army" instead of "I will build lots of destroyers, infantry, artillery, or air units".
In practical terms though I don't think this is that big of a problem that we need to worry about it other than the UU obsolescence questions. If I can't build tanks, I can still build infantry and gunships and artillery and MG/bazookas. Those are all typically more capable than dragoons are for most combat purposes, they're just slower and not as mobile but all hit harder and can be harder to kill, even if they're not tanks.
So... why would I want to build any dragoons or keep building them to upgrade them outside of some UU promotion? I can't think of any reason I would really. If the problem is I'm out of oil, there's ways around that (CS, conquest, expansion, deleting inexperienced BBs), but the solution isn't usually going to be "I will build a large horse-drawn army" instead of "I will build lots of destroyers, infantry, artillery, or air units".
ExpiredReign
Deity
That is a very well thought out piece of logic. I might have to re-think my position.
As always, I learn more and more from those with greater experience. Thanks.
I still think its relevant for some UUs. Sticky promotions can be very handy to keep having access to for another tech line or two to have the access to some "Maori" or "Mohawk" Infantry later on by cranking out a few more swords or warriors in the next tech era for later and gives the civ a bit of a unique flavor by seasoning the units differently than usual.
I don't think that should be something that lasts forever though.
The other reason this shouldn't be a major factor is the mod accelerates the discovery of where resources for the next tier of units may be found. If you know already "hmm, I won't have much oil", you may not prioritize the discovery of tanks and would go for something else instead.
I don't think that should be something that lasts forever though.
The other reason this shouldn't be a major factor is the mod accelerates the discovery of where resources for the next tier of units may be found. If you know already "hmm, I won't have much oil", you may not prioritize the discovery of tanks and would go for something else instead.
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