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Some reflections on peaceful Deity culture victory

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by nickytootricky, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. nickytootricky

    nickytootricky Warlord

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    Hi guys,

    I'd call myself an intermediate Deity player. Like many Deity players, I find the Science and Diplo victories far too easy, so I've been experimenting with the (relatively) peaceful cultural victory. By no means am I the best Deity player in the world and I appreciate some or all of this might have already been said. but I just thought I'd write the following reflections, in no particular order.

    - Which civ. Obviously there are better civs out there for this victory type, but I've found it can be doable with any. Particularly easy ones have been Poland, Babylon, Korea, Maya and the Celts.

    - SPs. I've found that consistently the best social policies are Tradition followed by a mixture of Aesthetics and Rationalism. I've experimented with other combos but these seem to be much better.

    - Wonders aren't THAT important. Especially at the beginning, when you need to expand to 3-4 solid cities. But even in the midgame it's not the end of the world if you miss out on wonders like Leaning Tower of Pisa, Sistine Chapel, Uffizi, etc. Science is the most important so focus on science and try and plan to get some of the wonders, but if you don't, it's not the end of the world. If you are behind on science the cultural victory will be pretty much impossible anyway, as you need to get to Internet fast.

    - You need faith, and don't dare neglece it, but you don't need that much faith. I've won a number of times without a religion. It's definitely not worth building Stonehenge. You just need to make sure you will have enough faith for 2-3 Great Musicians at the very end and perhaps 1 Great Engineer. More than doable with Shrines, Temples, and being allies with Religious CSs in my experience.

    - I have found Freedom to be the best ideology, but Order is also fine.

    - Prioritise the culture city states as soon as you can. It is always easy to find things to complete before this, but it is very important to spend that gold and complete those quests early. Not only do you get the important culture you need to plow through the SPs but also to stop the AI from getting too much culture. Later on you can prioritise the religious CS to get as much faith as possible.

    - As soon as you can cross oceans, buy (do not sell) open borders from everyone. Keep buying open borders until the end of the game. Send 1-2 boats and 4-5 scouts to explore the world. When you arrive at Archeology, you can use the scouts to sit on the antiquity sites. Avoid letting people into your borders, unless for a valid reason (e.g. letting your neighbours fight each other). If you want to steal more than one antiquity site from an AI, just make sure they all finish on the same turn.

    - Use your early spies for spying, then when you are tech leader or close to being the tech leader, send them to the cultural and religious CSs. Towards the end send them to the culture leaders' capitals as diplomats.

    - Remember to get your bonuses for museums etc but again in my experience it hasn't been the end of the world if you don't get them straight away.

    - Early caravans seem more significant than National College for the science. Also a sea capital with another coastal city close by is awesome for a relatively early sea food trade route.

    - Don't build the Musician's Guild until the very end, as the Concert Tour tourism boosts are based on the current tourism output. Wait until you have your maximum tourism and buy as many Great Musicians as you can with faith (they will start spawning from the guild as well) and send them to the culture leader(s). From about the midgame check regularly who is running away with culture.

    Taking these factors into account, alongside general solid Deity play, and the cultural victory should be won most of the time without resorting to destroying a cultural runaway with military. Any comments or tips from players who like this playstyle would be appreciated.
     
  2. Nares

    Nares Emperor

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    Did you mean to suggest using early spies to steal techs?
     
  3. glory7

    glory7 King

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    Great post. While I haven't seen your other posts, I agree that you are intermediate or better deity player as you know these tips.

    There were several deity (CV) challenge threads, and you might want to take a look at them to see what other players have done.
     
  4. nickytootricky

    nickytootricky Warlord

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    Yeah. Dumb moment :lol:
     
  5. IronfighterXXX

    IronfighterXXX Work Hard - Play Hard

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    I also very like peacefull deity CV - I found them quite challenging.
    My tips and answers:

    Which civ? Besides top civs like Poland, Babylon, Korea obviously civs with tourism bonus - so Brazil, France

    If you don't have many wonders early archeology is important

    The best use of caravans is to feed your cities - like in other games

    Most important thing you didn't mention World Congress resolution and theirs order - world religion, world fair and international games are game breaking

    There was intresting deity culture GOTM recently - you can try it http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=525265
     
  6. nickytootricky

    nickytootricky Warlord

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    Good points. I'd argue though that Brazil is often quite hard to play with its jungle start. Obviously great towards the end though. France's bonus is hardly anything. My point is I'd prefer to get a civ which ensures a better scientific start.

    I wouldn't say early archeology is that important. But it should come fairly early anyway, if you are prioritising science.

    I think the World Congress resolutions are overrated. I've never bothered with the world religion, while the other two are very hard to win.
     
  7. nickytootricky

    nickytootricky Warlord

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    I mean not overrated (because the benefits are amazing) just don't think you can consistently rely on getting them.
     
  8. IronfighterXXX

    IronfighterXXX Work Hard - Play Hard

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    Why not? AIs loves them - WF and IG, if you know what to do WR is also achievable

    EDIT: OK I read your earlier post and I know what you mean - WF and IG are hard to win in hammers - well, cultural victory is very hammer consuming and you should be prepare for it ;)
     
  9. nickytootricky

    nickytootricky Warlord

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    Agreed about the hammers,so much to build, so little time! I almost always miss out on on the WF and IG gold awards. Regarding WR, you're right, that's doable, the point I was trying to make though is that it's not even necessary to have your own religion. For example in my last game as the Shoshone I just went for a growth Pantheon which got me rolling much nicer than a religion would. I picked up enough faith later through city states and buildings.
     
  10. Nares

    Nares Emperor

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    World religion seems very situational to me. What's the math on overall tourism modifiers, and which ones are negative responses to world religion likely to force you to sacrifice?
     
  11. dragonxxx

    dragonxxx King

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    WR is usually the best way to angry everyone. You have to be very careful with it, if you have an aggressive neighbour that founded religion.
     
  12. nickytootricky

    nickytootricky Warlord

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    Agreed. Not worth 50% increase in tourism in the capital if both those neighbours are going to declare on you (I've just had a game surrounded by Shaka and Aug Caesar). And I guess the main point I'm making is that it isn't necessary, if you get off to a decent science start. I think Deau crunches some numbers in his thread http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=501996
     
  13. nickytootricky

    nickytootricky Warlord

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    Agreed...see above.
     
  14. Hammer Rabbi

    Hammer Rabbi Deity GOTM Staff

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    anyone tried Ethiopia with this? the Stele and UA seem good for a 3-4 city 'peaceful' CV.

    also any big growth civ, like abusing Aztecs floating gardens or Incas terrace farms if you pick the right map options. plus the hill/jungle movement is really convenient. so far all my peaceful CVs have been hindered by certain science crutches im terrible at accounting for, like not getting mtns for observatories. im usually torn between a coastal spot or a mtn spot, but rarely get both. im having a hard time peaking above 700bpt when i dont get any mtns. and my GSs arent popping for bigger amounts. its kind of irritating that it is still a speedy science path at deity.
     
  15. nickytootricky

    nickytootricky Warlord

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    Ethiopia are decent, yeah, but as you say, even the less considered Civs aren't too bad. Aztecs are a good shout - early bonus culture from Barbs and floating gardens. Inca too - can never underestimate the hill movement and free roads. Blasting a culture victory at the moment with Shaka of all people (with the thought that if Shaka can, anyone can) but it enabled me to explore the world faster without falling into negative GPT.
     
  16. slowcar

    slowcar King

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    This is not correct, finishing on the same turn does not has any influence on the outcome. If you promise to never do it again you break that promise with the next dig, even if it is in the same turn.
    If you plan to steal more than one it is important not to promise otherwise. The diplomatic hit is a one-time thing and not that bad, breaking a promise, on the other hand, is.

    The importance of faith cannot be overstated, in the end about 2/3 of your total tourism come from the few musicians generated/bought in the last turns.
    you can also improve win times by building roads towards the targets and ensure either open borders or a military escort (if war is needed).
     
  17. Walter E Kurtz

    Walter E Kurtz Warlord

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    No love for Polynesia? You can stack culture yield with moai to +5 per tile I think. This is later converted to tourism with hotels and airports. It's significant.

    Seeing as you are probably coastal you won't have too much trouble from lack of food on those tiles. Sending cargo ships back and forth and connecting sea trade routes for cash is one of the most powerful concepts in civ 5.
     
  18. kb27787

    kb27787 Deity

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    Polynesia is by far one of the most failproof civs you can pick... along with Brazil where you can afford to miss out on a lot of wonders.

    My favorite right now however is Inca, as pretty much (aside from godly Petra dirt) you get food without sacrificing hammers and while I find their max tourism might not go that high they have a pretty good hammer-science curve (meaning that you have hammers exactly the moment you get the tech... if science outpaces hammer then science is kinda useless) such that making decisions on what to build or what to use your routes for are rather easy. They grow pretty nice even on production focus, and they still build pretty quickly on food focus too. Their cities become production powerhouses with minimal effort and that makes winning WF or IG that much easier. That's as failproof as you can get.

    Hence I seriously do not like Babs or Korea for CV too much, while they are efficient, a lot of the times you're stuck deciding between coliseum, workshop, or opera house for example.... and then between archaeologist, factory, or hydro plant, or wonder, etc. if science is too fast I tend to get lost in what I should build at the moment.

    Poland's tradition-piety hybrid is amazing awesome and fun to try out on some starts (as long as the religious tolerance abuse bug is still around anyway... have you ever seen double DF (+2 faith from desert tiles including floodplains or oasis) on a size 20 city? Now think about 3 such cities, and it becomes ridiculous. If you grow your cities really fast religion spread will not catch up and your cities can remain pagans for a looooong time, and usually until then you have your holy site network up) There's seriously no need for running guilds early or for hard-building those wonders if you have ~5 holy sites sitting around come industrial... (and you can Pisa out the 6th prophet and another from piety finisher... not to mention stealing enemy GP if the chance arises) and to top that off, you don't even need to finish rationalism to get GS from Glory of God. Poland is the only civ that can do that while still getting tradition's bonuses.
     
  19. dragonxxx

    dragonxxx King

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    kb27787 whats that religious tolerance bug? Also, that Poland strategy sounds fun, but is there more detailed guilde how to do it ?
     
  20. Hammer Rabbi

    Hammer Rabbi Deity GOTM Staff

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    i forget, Hotels and Airports say 50% tourism from improvements that produce culture. it says Maoi, Chateau, etc. does this apply to any improvement on a tile you are getting culture from a pantheon or UA? Japan has a jungle start bias plus culture bonus from worked water tiles and atolls. could they theoretically get tourism from the jungle pantheon and their water tiles?

    i wouldnt count on this on deity, haha, but it sounds interesting to experiment with.
     

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