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Some revisions and plans of mine

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by Sir Monster The Great, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. Sir Monster The Great

    Sir Monster The Great Chieftain

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    I've been working on revising some tech names to fit better with what the tech is or to remove redundancies.

    A google doc has been written up documenting my changes.

    C2C Renamed Techs

    I also have plans for sub eras; eras within eras. These are just milestones for flavor for now, but it may be expanded into bonuses for getting them.

    Sub eras C2C (WIP)

    I also think that HR (History Rewitrtten) has some techs that could, at the very least, fill up some of the blank spaces within the tree and flesh out some of the ears, at least by a little. We may want to have a discussion about this later on, however.

    HR (History Rewitrtten) Techs to C2C (It's even color-coded! That's crazy!)

    C2C Punkles (WIP) (Possible modmod that adds more punk techs)

    C2C Resurrected Techs (Old forgotten techs reworked)

    I also have plans to add ET contact into the mod.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
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  2. Praetyre

    Praetyre King

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    Hello,

    I don't know if what you have in mind for sub-eras is along the lines of EU IV Ages or something more in depth, but I've been musing over the subject of C2C's chronology for a long time now. I consider the different eras in Civ to be the backbone of the other content; each era should have its own distinctive atmosphere and capture a vast swathe of in-game and real life history. My longer term goal is to develop my own modmod to align things with this vision, although I'm certainly happy to share content with C2C proper.

    I took a look at your documents and noticed some parallels between your suberas and what I call the Long Chronology. Long story short is that I came to the conclusion that my Short Chronology was better suited to portraying a culturally universal human history, which most C2C games (including Earth map games) would be, whereas my Long Chronology is more Eurocentric (it is generally based on the idea that the leading civilizations of the time determine the pace of eras and dates). I also lean towards focusing on equal gametime rather than dates these days, although this is one area me and Thunderbrd differ; he sees the calendar as a yardstick for Civ (not just C2C) players to measure their own progress with.

    RE: Prehistoric suberas: In both of my chronologies, the Prehistoric is renamed the Paleolithic, and the era currently called Ancient in C2C (which may for both technical reasons (namely the game being hardcoded to set the default starting era as whatever is designated ERA_ANCIENT in the XML, which has minor implications for custom games and considerably greater ones for standard games, especially when one considers C2C is intended to be started in the Prehistoric and later starts are only rudimentary in terms of many things, balance included, although granted most people play custom games anyway, so it may just be a minor inconvenience). be renamed to Sedentary at some point) is renamed to Neolithic.

    I see the difference between the Paleolithic and Neolithic as being more radical than the difference between the Neolithic and the Information Era we live in; it represents a paradigm shift dwarfing even that of the Industrial Revolutions and globalization/the postwar "Peace to End All Peaces". As such, I have it as a seperate era; indeed; the Short and Long Chronology are identical until you get to the dawn of the Ancient Era.

    RE: The Mesolithic​
    Spoiler :

    I considered having Mesolithic as an intermediate era between Paleolithic and Neolithic on the Long Chronology, but it ran afoul of one of the main goals of my chronologies, which were to give each era/subera a unique atmosphere tied in with the history of humanity and it's leading civilizations. The Paleolithic is, of course, man's starting position, and the Neolithic occurred in a relatively synchronized fashion around the time the Last Glacial Maximum (popularly known as the Ice Age) ended, and it occurred virtually everywhere except Australia and some extremely primitive isolated bands (such as the Sentinelese or certain groups in Papua New Guinea).

    The Mesolithic, by contrast, occurred only in Europe and the Middle East, and is somewhat lacking in distinguishing characteristics; I am not unsympathetic to the perspective of iterated gameplay (I like the idea of starting with Brutes and Stone Throwers and making your way through the various Prehistoric unit lines), and indeed part of my goals with this whole chronology project is to make it so that each era has enough time to fully flourish and tell a long history in and of itself comparable to that of the historical (or pre-historical) period it covered in our world, and one aspect of this is having each era have at least one tier of military units to itself where appropriate (progressing from Brutes and Stone Throwers through various kinds of Spearmen to the armies of antiquity and so forth).

    However, what would the difference in gameplay terms be in the Mesolithic? More advanced units and buildings? A lessened focus on big game hunting and early human migrations? More advanced culture? I'm not saying one couldn't construct some sort of profile for it, but it doesn't really jump out at me.

    If you do end up going with the Mesolithic, might I suggest the Prehistoric era be made up of the Middle Paleolithic (which is very roughly coterminous with when we currently think Homo sapiens sapiens evolved), Upper Paleolithic (which is roughly coterminous with when human behavioural modernity is postulated to have emerged by some theories), and Mesolithic?


    There are similar problems with the Chalcolithic (Copper Age), although the date gap between Europe and the Middle East is considerably smaller and I can see a differentiation on both a lore and gameplay level between tribal villages and proto-city states. Part of this also ties in with my music project, which aims to give each era a unique atmosphere; of course; those suberas needn't be implemented in a way that would conflict with that, especially if the way in which music is determined is set the right way.

    The Iron Age is an interesting case; the problems with it lie in both the fact that it is interchangeably used to designate a stage of metallurgical development and a broader time period, and that time period happens to overlap with both Ancient and Classical in C2C terms, and that that time period is one I personally tend to believe is a "phantom time period" based on trying to reconcile Greek archaeology with Middle Eastern chronology, and Middle Eastern chronology in turn with the conventional Egyptian chronology. (Look up David Rohl's New Chronology if you want to know more about this issue)

    In gameplay terms, if Iron is positioned after Bronze and before Classical, where does that leave the military unit tiers? There definitely should be something to represent the transition from bronze to iron equipment, but does that mean that tier would encompass all of Classical Antiquity? Consider, for example, the evolution the Roman military went through; starting with tribal militias in the days of the Roman Kingdom, then going through Polybian legions (at least in part inspired by Etruscan and perhaps Greek hoplites), then going through the Camillan, Marian, and Augustan reforms, then going through barbarianisation and, later, crises, then ending up with a Late Antiquity army resembling early medieval European armies in many ways.

    You might want to pick a different name for the Golden Age, given its preexistence as the name of a game mechanic. Might I suggest the Axial Age?

    I like how you have Late Antiquity as seperate from the Low Middle Ages; this isn't to say they didn't have a lot of similarities, but they do deserve to be treated as discrete eras, in my view.

    I initially called the middle period of my tripartite Long Chronology of the Early Modern Era (and i like your name changes for what are currently the Renaissance and Industrial eras) the Age of Discovery or Age of Sail, but this was only a tentative name, as such a descriptor could be applied to a good chunk of the Early Modern Era as a whole. I went with Baroque Period instead, with the soundtrack to match.

    Steam strikes me as either being synonymous with the Revolutionary or Napoleonic subera (which I call the Romantic Period), or as synonymous with your Industrial subera. Similarly, Imperialism seems synonymous with Industrial, though with some overlap with Great War.

    What is the difference between Contemporary and Space Age meant to be? And is robotic meant to be like the development of factory robots, since otherwise I'd suggest it'd fit better after Digital, with Digital being the first subera of Information.

    The rest of the future suberas strike me as things that could well occur simultaneously with one another within the era they are in, and I'm not clear on what the difference between Utopia and Homunifity is. Is the former focused on visions for society and the latter on implementing those visions via mass consciousness and the Sentient Earth?

    Here's a chart I put together comparing the various chronologies, with yours at the far right. Feel free to make use of it if you'd like: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HvKhOV_Hxed5olSIcPTM6r3etFEjf1zxRMWAkqMUUPc/edit?usp=sharing
     
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  3. Sir Monster The Great

    Sir Monster The Great Chieftain

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    I think a better way to unlock resource-specific sub eras, (Bronze Age for example) would be for them to be unlocked the same stack resource. The same could go for many of these eras; Droidc could be unlocked via the acquisition of Droids, rather than simply researching tech. Contemporary is a mostly post-war period. Cold War could be a better name and we wouldn't have to amalgamate the early Atomic into the late Industrial. The Space Age represents a time where society looked to the stars and imagined worlds beyond. It's was really influential during the 60s and 80s, bringing in sci-fi into the mainstream. Steam engines were first really automated sort of engines and they revolutionized travel and were a gateway into the Industrial era. Utopian is about the creation of a perfect society via engineering of the human mind and the environment as a whole. Homunifity (now Gestalt), is the unification of mankind into one superorganism.
     
  4. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    This "each era should have its own distinctive atmosphere" is what I have wanted for C2C from the beginning. The idea that eras have differing ways of looking at and interacting with the world. Differing priorities if you will. How survival of the tribe gets replaced by security for the tribe, or how do we work as a tribe (~20-25 individuals) to how do we work as a group of tribes and so on up and beyond how do we work together as a galaxy spanning collections of solar systems, rogue planets and migratory fleets!
     
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  5. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Deity

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    There was the idea of a project a long time ago, called cultural heritage. It would work by assigning each era a bunch of quests that fit the era and reward people with a bonus for the quests that were fulfilled the most. They also were intended to make the eras very distinct from each other. Maybe with the new C++ modders this could become a reality and fits your ideas here?
     
  6. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    It was a very interesting project but I could not figure out how it would work since it gave rewards when you(?) passed a milestone based on how the others did at that milestone and they may not get there for 100 turns yet. Basically it was a great idea but wasn't quite there yet. I can see it fitting with a focus per era and even a focus era by traits. Iirc it was a bit one solution fits all eras as it stood. I did get the art work on the SVN. Not sure if it is still there.

    Original discussion Cultural Heritage
     
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