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Some situational analysis

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Kool Keith, Jun 25, 2007.

  1. Kool Keith

    Kool Keith Warlord

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    I'd like to discuss my current game situation and see some of the responses.

    My main issue is that I am about to hit my final war, my Sherman's March for a domination victory, so to speak. I am curious as to how I should handle my upgrade situation, as I believe I will need some artillery and infantry to finish this thing off.

    I am playing a standard size map, continents, emperor level. The year is 1210 AD and I control 46% of the world area. My government is Monarchy. I am two turns from replaceable parts. I have about 1100 gold in the treasury and my research is juiced at 90%, causing a net loss of 30 gold per turn.

    Rome is my primary opponent, and seems quite strong for an AI civ. Caesar's military has been superior to mine all game long according to my military adviser. They have cavalry and muskets but are not yet in the industrial age.

    My military:
    58 cavs
    21 medieval infantry
    35 cannons

    Since my cavs would be about a 50/50 shot against muskets, I believe I will need some artillery at least to finish this off quickly. Not sure if I should concern myself with the infantry.

    So I'll have roughly 1000 gold and about 250 GPT with research turned off. It would cost 120 per upgrade for artillery and 150 per upgrade for infantry.

    I could upgrade 30 cannons or 23 infantry within 10 turns.

    Is it a no-brainer that I focus strictly on upgrading the artillery? Will the medieval infantry be enough defense?

    Or should I just go wack Rome with my cavalry right now? The last thing I want is to start a war that will not finish the game. I'd like to have this done before 1400 AD.

    Just curious to see how my thought process compares with some others. Thanks in advance.

    Here is a save and a picture of rome's territory:
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Mailman_Posty

    Mailman_Posty Chieftain

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    I believe that you should Upgrade about 5 to infantry and the rest of the money spent on the artillery. If romes best offensive unit is a cav 5 infantry and remaining med infantry with ure cavalry should be able to hold out agaist attack. You should have no probaly conquering them with that. Good luck.
     
  3. civverguy

    civverguy Emperor

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    I think you should attack on the coastlines to do a D-day like invasion because most of Rome's core inland.
     
  4. Pyrrhos

    Pyrrhos Vae Victis

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    Wait five turns, upgrade six inf and ten artilleri. Land the lot next to Rome (between Hispalis and Ravenna), take Rome and fight a war of attrition. Six inf, ten art, 25 cannon plus 40 cavs ought to survive all that can be thrown at it while depleting ALL of Rome's military assets. If you rush a barracks in Rome, you could upgrade one medinf and one cannon per turn as well.

    You could, for a diversion and to draw off Rome's military forces during the critical landing stage (when you have to suffer one turn of inactivity) make a suicide landing of about eight cannon, eight cav and eight medinf near Syracuse a couple of turns in advance.
     
  5. eldar

    eldar ChiefTank

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    Similar-ish situation in a game I just finished. Rome (just by coincidence) were on an island with less cities, but given all that swamp/mountains, your Romans might as well be.

    I targeted one weak city on the coast, took it, and fortified it up (rushed Walls, Barracks, Harbour, Temple). Used my navy (this was a 'pelago so I had 18-20 Frigates on hand) to bombard his attacking forces, then broke out and captured the rest of the island in 4-5 turns.

    Use Darhan as your beachhead (I don't suppose you care too much who you kill right now... territory is territory, right?), once you're in there, declare on Rome. Maybe even take a Settler along and re-settle Darhan on the Iron hill for better defence.
     
  6. Kool Keith

    Kool Keith Warlord

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    I do have a foothold on the continent. I control the southern tip. Would it still be best if I attack Rome head-on?
     
  7. eldar

    eldar ChiefTank

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    Just look at the territory you'd have to trek through to get there though! It'd be much quicker (and in the case of cannons... you'd have to) go by ship.
     
  8. gmaharriet

    gmaharriet Ancient Crone

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    One small detail I haven't seen mentioned....

    Medieval infantry don't upgrade to Infantry, but to Guerillas. Units that upgrade to Infantry are Pikes and Muskets. You'd have to build Infantry from scratch if you don't have either of those.
     
  9. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    First I do not have any idea why you are concerned with any of these civs, they are hapless. Second I would wonder why in the heck you have not even started the Military Acad, that is nuts.

    I would switch London to it now. When RP comes in switch the two taxmen to CE's. I forget if they are allowed for small wonders, if not then don't.

    Switch off all cannon builds, you have no need of them nor do you need to add to the extra support with them. You have little real need of bombardment Vs muskets, once you get cav armies to size 4.

    You can send some along with a few infantry to places that they can get to in time, that will not be many though.

    I would stop all unit builds in places that do not have a rax, that is crazy and you do not need more units anyway.

    I would first finish off Greece and try some leader fishing. I dislike having an AI around as an OCC. Then clear out the Zulu capitol and as I declare on them, I get Rome to do it as I want them to eliminate the other town, else I roll on it with ships.

    Get a settler in position to found a town on the grass tile at the edge of the Greek land, so that once Greece falls the culture will not close the gate to Zululand.

    It will irritate Rome, so what? If I get a leader form that 3rd army and start the Pentagon. I may start a prebuild for it now.

    I probably would stop the starving in Ngome. I would probably rush a couple of settlers out off Barcalona and abandon it and found it one tile over on the river. Add the extra settler back in and let it get to city size. Maybe add in some of those extra settler you have on hand.

    I would look around to find places to skim off workers to get the work done, what can you say about having 16 workers at this stage. It is like tying an anchor on your leg and going on a foot race.

    Check on all the places that have 1 or 2 shield yields and work to get them into science farms. Look to unload the galleys, why would you ever have 16 of them anyway?

    I see things like a single worker (slave) railing a hill? Next to it is a starving city, it could be irrigating a tile to feed the place. So on and so on.

    I like arties, but you only need a few, IF you get rails on the coast, so you can get coverage in case of a landing.

    Why did you research Med before RP? Did you intend to beeline for ToE? This game could be over before then.
     
  10. Kool Keith

    Kool Keith Warlord

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    Thanks, everyone for your responses. GMAHarriet, oops. :blush: Oh well. Guerillas will do.


    VMXA, thanks for cracking open my save. I really appreciate it.

    First let me say that I know I have the game all but won. My only concern is minimizing the number of turns it will take to end the game. As is, this is probably the best game I've ever played, but I want to finish strong.

    Confession: I've never built the Military Acadamy. What does it do that it is so important?

    I didn't research Medicine, I traded for it with Greece.

    I am at work right now so I won't have any time to really go through your recommendations until late tonight (Eastern Standard Time), but thanks once again for your time.
     
  11. Rising Star

    Rising Star Warlord

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    The MA allows you to create armies without using leaders. Very important in any game. Combined with the Pentagon, you've got military superiority coming out the wazoo.
     
  12. eldar

    eldar ChiefTank

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    Military Academy serves two functions (in C3C at least):
    1. It lets you build Armies (400 shields each). So build it in a high-shield city.
    2. It makes your Armies more powerful:

    Before building the Academy, Army attack (defence) bonus is [total of units' attacks (defences)] / 6. With the Academy, this becomes [total of units' attacks (defences)] / 4.

    E.g. a 3-Cav army gets an attack bonus of (6+6+6) / 6 = 3 pre-Academy, and (6+6+6) / 4 = 4.5 with it.

    So build it already :D
     
  13. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    Trading for it, may be ok, depends on what you traded. I thought I read that no one was in the IA, other than you. so I did not consider that.

    I am not fond of trading anything to the AI, when we get to the end game. Only if I can get something and give them nothing they can really use. So no techs that get them closer to the next age.

    I will trade them option techs that are not so useful though, but I have to get something of value. A few gold is of no interest at this point. A lux could be, not going to happen and you will not have it for long anyway.

    To make it fast, you can just go head long and raze as you go. No real need to hold any new land, except for an occasional leap frog one.

    I suspect it will be as fast to do it safely as the reduction in lost troops will offset he slower pace, hard to say.

    My interest is how to show you a means of doing even better next time. IOW coming to this point in ever better shape.
     
  14. Kool Keith

    Kool Keith Warlord

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    Greece made it to the IA and medicine was their free tech. I traded Steam Power to get it since Greece will be exterminated in a matter of turns. I doubt the move is of any consequence, good or bad.

    At this stage of the game, I am not so sure building the MA is necessary. By the time I build it and pump out an army I would hop the game will be over.

    In fact, I was considering setting the production of my entire empire to wealth in order to help finance my upgrades.
     
  15. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    Yes it is too late now, but I wanted to point out it should have been done a long time ago. as you can see it is possible to play a number of ways and still win at this level. It is how ever better you do a few thing optimally and be stronger.

    This lets you deal with tougher levels. The trade is fine as outlined, as long as the Greeks do not trade Steam around. Not sure if they will get the chance, but you want to consider that. Probably the others are not in a positon to get to the next age and do a trade in time.

    My whole point on the trade issue, is be wary of a short term gain that could help the others more than you expected. i will only do a deal after the middle ages, that cannot do anything for them. Just not worth a small gain.
     
  16. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    Here is one possible way to look at the empire:

    Tugela - galleon
    Zimbabwe - worker
    Intombe - worker
    Liverpool - aqua going to put up some irrigated railed tiles and use a CE or two to get the aqua up and then a market.
    Norwich - settler
    Mpondo - wealth
    Hlobane - settler, will rush it next turn so I can abandon the dump and found 2 tiles over.
    Teayo - worker
    I see 15 of the 16 settlers are over seas, you cannot use them to bump pop. You do know that it cost you support to have them sit around all this time and of course it cost you shields and production of other things to make them. Even in a 250x250 AWE I doubt I saw 16 settlers on hand, got close but those are special games and you cannot fail to found a town when it is possible and your culture will be very low.

    What I am saying is that 16 settlers would have been better as 6 and 20 more workers. Not too mention the workers pop loss is replaced faster than a settler hit.

    Ulundi - worker
    Brighton - worker
    Dover - worker
    Bapedi - aqua
    Leeds - aqua
    Warwick - LB
    This is just a conveyance for the shields. Wish the rails were up so it could get where it could make the best use upon disbanding.

    Cantebury - market
    Nottingham - move pop off of coastal tile to forest same 1 food and 2 gold, but gain 2 shields.

    Tamuin - worker
    London - needs to look at mining the cow and putting specialist back to work. Will have to examine the tiles that can be appropriated to keep food at 24.
    York - start by putting two beakerheads on mines. This gains 5 shields and 4 net beakers.
    Need to mine another grass tile and put the last beakerhead to work.
    Need to see about minninig cow as there is too much food as it is now. Will gain at least two more shields.

    NOTE, take care about cows in the core. Usually irrigation early it the best way, but normally you should come back and mine them later. You no longer need more food, but need more shields.
    switch to university. we can wait for the extra cav.

    Tula - market. Lets get this place some structures. It is size 9 and could at least use a lib.
    Coventry - market
    Newcastle - settler
    This place needs to be moved. It is one tile form Oxford, ouch. I will abandon Malinalco and found a new place on the river bend. Now Oxford will be stronger and you will end up with a city that does not need an aqua.

    Malinalco - worker
    Oxford - market. It needs one more food so either chop the trees or rail a tile.
    Swazi - settler. Note that it cost nothing as you have 2 clowns anyway.
    Seville - market will need CE's.
    Tlacopan - harbor. Yes I dislike it, but the shields had been aquirred.
    Tzintzuntzen - aqua. Will disband some stuff here to get it done quick.

    Note I am going to grab these ships. If we want to send these units over, why not upgrade a few to galleons. They are faster and hold more, so 10 will do more than 16 galleys.
    With the worker shortage on the mainland I am not going to ship any workers off to a place that will be in turmoil.

    Tlaxcala - market.
    Teotihuacan - market, move one pop off a plains to the iron. Mostly to slow down growth, till can get market up.
    Texcoco - market
    Atzcapotzalco - aqua
    Madrid - market
    Tenochtitlan - worker
    Santiago - aqua

    Moved a bunch of units off tiles in the open to towns to provide some MP and also to be on a road and eventually a rail to allow getting them to any action.

    Tlatelolco - market
    Calixtlahuaca - wealth, one pop to specialist as no need for the extra food.
    Toledo - temple. Hey no MP's here so no quelling of resisters?
    Barcelona - same as Toledo.
    Murcia - worker
    Valencia - temple, has a resister.
    Salamanca - temple, resister.
    Zaragoza - settler
    Umtata - aqua
    Ngome - market

    Move some units to quell.

    Kazan moved 3 slaves off the hill to rail the road in town. Prefer to connect the towns on this land mass as it will never be a production area, just land to hold.

    Ulanbaatar - temple. We do not need a musket in 44 turns here, it is either safe or not. We could stand to expand the border though. Once RP comes in the pop working the mine can be a CE and speed it up. Stop the slave from railing a mountain by itself. That is another 20 turns, not useful. send in to the coast and use it some place it can have an outcome.

    Satsuma - temple as well.
    Almarikh - temple. As you can see I am inclined to get the dual use of culture and happiness in newly captured towns. I may sell them off after the expansion.
    I just want to get as many tiles in the empire as I can and may rush some. It makes it slower going for the AI to attack.

    Hovd - worker,it has 4 resisters so may as well shrink it.
    Kazan - temple and move the cav to Hovd.
    Karakorum - temple.
    Ta-Tu - worker
    Tokyo - temple
    Reading - wealth, move pop to stop growth.
    Sent out a settler to found a fill in town on the hill by the cow.

    Tabriz - temple. disband a caravel here. send the galleon back to mainland. will disband all the 5 galleys here next turn.

    Kagoshima - temple. Move MoW in to heal. Move 2 cavs in to quell.
    Edo - temple. Move in 2 cavs.
    Thermopylae - temple. It is empty and is on the front line?
    Send musket and settler to the first ruin site to found a town and 2 MDI and settler to the ruin site on the hill. Sent MDI and AC to Osaka to quell.

    Osaka - temple.
    Disbanded a couple of bombardment units and now -19gpt.
     
  17. Fanny Brice

    Fanny Brice Prince

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    Here's another option... I assume you have plenty of shipping at this point. Grab some of your new infantry, some cannons, a couple of cav, and about 4 or 6 workers and form a blocking position by building a couple of barricades near Lutetia across the narrows of that penninsula. That will block off any units Rome can produce from those 10 or so cities down there. It is not essential, but it would be fun.

    I assume the bulk of your army is already on the continent finishing off the Greeks, so organizing a full-on naval assault on Rome would be very time consuming. You want to get the bulk of your fighting down ASAP before he reaches the IA. Concentrate your efforts, obviously, to the left of the lake area in the middle to take out his more productive cities. With the low population numbers his cities on the right have, you have nothing to worry about after you overcome his initial calvery counterattack in the first couple of turns. You could sit this counterattack out on the hills out mountains.

    Don't wait too long or he will start building riflemen if he gets Nationalism.
     
  18. LowEndUser

    LowEndUser Chieftain

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    Keith

    Is this a C3, PTW or C3C Game ? I downloaded your Save and thought I`d like to play it out using all the good advice the very experienced folks have been posting for you.

    If you have an earlier save as well and don`t mind posting it, I think it could be a helpful learning tool for us new guys to see how you approached the end Game.

    Thanks !
     
  19. Kool Keith

    Kool Keith Warlord

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    It's C3C. I have some earlier saves, I'll get them to you later when I get home. Let me know if there is a particular date you would like to start playing from.
     
  20. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    I don't think I would sweat much over rifles. It is only infantry that are scary. true it is better to not face rifles, but you will do nearly as well as you will against muskets.

    They are so far form RP that it won't happen.
     

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