some things annoying me

TheGrinch

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 10, 2024
Messages
15
Hi i'm new here

trying to play monarch level an failing badly every time, normally play as English or America. as soon as i get a tech where i ca try get a decent army i get attacked more or less straight away. also i very rarely manage to have iron and horses whereas everyone else on my island always has oth. even with the great lirary i get overtook onn tech instantly after education as im constatly set on 20-40 science. empires with only 5 cities are teching way faster. against English earlier they nearly got wiped out early doors, was left with 4 cities, roll forward a little and they were attacking me with Riflemen while i was only on knights. How did they get there so quick with only a few cities?

any tips will e helpfull for monarch

cheers

also whats the most anyone has attacked them, i got attacked with over 300 guerilla and infantry the other day against the spanish, i only had knights and was 2 turns away from cavalry
 
Hi, and welcome to Civfanatics!:wavey:

From your description, it sounds like you may still be making some of the common beginner-errors in Civ3, such as:
-- Failing to expand effectively during the early game
-- Misdirecting (early) shields into expensive Wonders (or buildings) instead of weapons
-- Under-investing in Science
-- Tech-hoarding, instead of Tech-trading
-- Not exiting Despotism into Republic early enough/ at all.
I.e. Stuff that you can get away with at Chieftain, Warlord, and even Regent, but increasingly less so at Monarch+.

But without more information, that's just speculation. Maybe attach a save of a recent/ typical game so we can give you a better picture of what you might want to try doing differently, to get better results?

Failing that, CivFanatic @SuedecivIII also has a YT channel with lots of helpful videos about improving basic play, like this one:

And this one:
 
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thnks a lot for your reply, i'l take a look at the vids

yes i think i do concentrate on building a lot early such as baracks and libraries but the 1st wonder i go for is the great library, mainly just warriors spearmen and settlers until i cover as much of the map as possible. im slow to build workers up as i concentrate more on settlers than workers with the population losses
 
im slow to build workers up as i concentrate more on settlers than workers with the population losses
Workers are critical for tech and production. When you found a new city, try to build a worker as the first unit it builds (make sure it will grow at the same time or sooner than the worker is done). That way, you can start building roads (+ commerce, which is more tax + science) and mining/irrigating. For core cities around your capital, make sure you road and irrigate any food bonuses (sugar, cattle, etc) to make those cities grow fast and then mine grasslands to get extra production while they grow.

In my early game (and I always play games on rivers), I road the food bonus right away (more science), then irrigate it, then road any other productive tiles like bonus grasslands, and then mine them. I usually use the capital worker going around the capital, and my first builds are scout/scout (if expansionist) or warrior / warrior (if not) and then settler, granary, settler, settler, .....

In every new town I found, first build is worker then a warrior for military police (at Monarch, 3rd citizen is unhappy, but 2 warriors will suppress unhappiness until size 5), and then I either push out more settlers or start building military. Other people found towns where there is great food bonuses + production (5 extra food) and produce "worker pumps" that produce a new worker every 2 or 4 turns at stable populations. There are lots of people who say you should have 2 workers per city; I tend to be more like 1.5 or less.

If you can buy workers from other civs (or capture them), that is a huge boost, especially in Republic (which is the best government because of commerce boost), since you don't pay upkeep for them.

On Monarch level, you really only need to protect border towns with 1-2 good defensive units. And keep trading with the AI to keep them polite towards you.

Just by doing the above and focusing on building workers + roads, plus switching to Republic as soon as you can, you will absolutely crush the Monarch AI in tech.
 
Thanks BlackBetsy

out of America and England which you you choose to play as, England start with Alphabet which i like as its a step closer to literacy and the great library but nearly every goody hut is barbarians, America never has a bad goody hut somehow but takes longer to get to Great library without the alphabet start.

would you go for republic 1st bypassing literacy then?
 
Thanks BlackBetsy

out of America and England which you you choose to play as, England start with Alphabet which i like as its a step closer to literacy and the great library but nearly every goody hut is barbarians, America never has a bad goody hut somehow but takes longer to get to Great library without the alphabet start.

would you go for republic 1st bypassing literacy then?
It depends on how I was trying to win - by conquest, domination, science (diplo/spaceship), or culture. To be honest, I don't play with either of those civs very often.

America is industrious and expansionist, so you can leverage those traits to build up a very productive empire quickly. I would make sure that I am NOT producing a settler in my capital and pop a few goody huts right away to get a second settler. Or you can get techs (including Alphabet) from huts. So I would found Washington, build 2 additional scouts and pop as many huts as possible. Near Washington, I would be creating roads on the good tiles and be maxxing science. I wouldn't be going for the Great Library at Monarch level because if I was expanding right with good commerce, I'm going to be light years ahead of the AI on science. And when they do get a new tech before I do, I will simply trade for it with them.

I've never played England. I like the early game advantages of America, though.
 
It depends on how I was trying to win - by conquest, domination, science (diplo/spaceship), or culture. To be honest, I don't play with either of those civs very often.

America is industrious and expansionist, so you can leverage those traits to build up a very productive empire quickly. I would make sure that I am NOT producing a settler in my capital and pop a few goody huts right away to get a second settler. Or you can get techs (including Alphabet) from huts. So I would found Washington, build 2 additional scouts and pop as many huts as possible. Near Washington, I would be creating roads on the good tiles and be maxxing science. I wouldn't be going for the Great Library at Monarch level because if I was expanding right with good commerce, I'm going to be light years ahead of the AI on science. And when they do get a new tech before I do, I will simply trade for it with them.

I've never played England. I like the early game advantages of America, though.
Also, after a while you learn the techs that the AI prefer and the ones they tend to avoid. They always avoid Literature. So you can research it and get whatever Ancient Age techs they've researched in return for Literature - it kind of works like the Great Library without building it that way. In the Medieval Age, they start to go for Music Theory and Printing Press while you can stay on the hard science path to Invention / Gunpowder / Chemistry and then trade that away for whatever they've done. In the Industrial Age, they will always go for Communism / Fascism / Espionage while you can have Electricity and Scientific Method to yourself. Build the Theory of Evolution and pick Atomic Theory and Electronics and you will have a huge lead - you can trade those for just about any Industrial Age tech you want.

But the most important thing is to figure out what kind of victory you want. If you want conquest or domination, science is kind of irrelevant except for the good military techs like Iron Working (Swordsman- 3 attack), Mathematics (catapult), Feudalism (Pikemen 3 defense and Medieval Infantry 4 attack), Chivalry (Knights - 4 attack, 2 move), Engineering (Trebuchets), Gunpowder (Musketmen), Metallurgy (cannon) and Military Tradition (Cavalry). At very high levels like Sid and Deity and Demigod, some players just build up their civs until they get Military Tradition, convert tons of Horsemen or Knights to Cavalry, and just absolutely rip through AI's with huge stacks of cannon (or artillery) and Cavalry. Some of the most famous games involve shredding multiple Sid AI's in a matter of 50-60 turns.

If you want to win by culture, you have to decide that before the game. 20k culture in one city means focusing all of your efforts on building Wonders in one city. It's also extremely important to be ahead on science to generate Scientific Great Leaders to rush Wonders in the 20k city. By contrast, 100k culture is all about building an empire as large as you can as fast as you can and then building as many cultural buildings (Libraries, Temples, Universities, Cathedrals, Colosseums) in your cities. It's the only type of victory where Feudalism can be best because you can population rush buildings. Science is almost irrelevant, and there is no tech after Education that really helps you with culture until you get to Computers. You've probably won the 100k game by then.

If you want to win by science (Diplo - building the UN first and then holding a rigged election, or Spaceship - researching and building parts first), then it's focus on roads, building a huge empire (every city produces at least one uncorrupted beaker), and building out science capacity (libraries, universities, Colossus, Copernicus' Observatory, Newton's University).

If you go to the Hall of Fame forum, my thread on my Hall of Fame attempts basically tracks what I've learned about victory conditions and how to play for them over the course of re-learning and re-playing Civ 3 over the past 10 months. To be fair, some of those early posts show me very raw in my game and some of the games I put in the HOF are pretty poor compared to more recent games. If anything, I've learned it's about being ruthlessly dedicated to your victory condition and early game expansion. Food = population = production & commerce = power.
 
would you go for republic 1st bypassing literature then?
Of course. You need to leave despotism ASAP. Then research or trade for those techs, that are cheaper than literature, and then research literature. You need the small libraries. Combine those with the extra commerce from republic and your tech pace will be so high that it renders the great library useless.
 
Of course. You need to leave despotism ASAP. Then research or trade for those techs, that are cheaper than literature, and then research literature. You need the small libraries. Combine those with the extra commerce from republic and your tech pace will be so high that it renders the great library useless.
With one caveat, you must have enough workers and have built up your infrastructure a bit. Often times newer players have too many military police (usually spearman) in every city and not enough workers and roads. Then they switch to Republic and go from positive gold per turn to huge negative. Republic really comes into its own with worked tiles and larger cities.

OP make sure that you have enough workers and not too many unnecessary units plus a decent amount of roads as you work your way towards the switch to Republic.
 
The early republic has its challanges. But by the time you have libraries at some scale those challanges ought to be overcome by quite some turns already.

Try to optimize by which turn you have at least 10 cities at size 10 with properly improved tiles.

During despotism you donnot need barracks, regular 3/3 warriors will do just fine as military police. During anarchy move your units around and before your first turn as a repulic ends, disband most of your military to skimp on unit support. Donnot overdo it either, as war is more costly than a just bit of unit support.
 
With one caveat, you must have enough workers and have built up your infrastructure a bit. Often times newer players have too many military police (usually spearman) in every city and not enough workers and roads. Then they switch to Republic and go from positive gold per turn to huge negative. Republic really comes into its own with worked tiles and larger cities.

OP make sure that you have enough workers and not too many unnecessary units plus a decent amount of roads as you work your way towards the switch to Republic.
that sounds like where i'm going wrong, every time i switch i have to put science research to zero or i'm big minus on gold. so we saying just have 1 unit in cities then bang out the workers? what if i get attacked (i do often)
 
that sounds like where i'm going wrong, every time i switch i have to put science research to zero or i'm big minus on gold. so we saying just have 1 unit in cities then bang out the workers? what if i get attacked (i do often)
There is a huge difference between republic and despotism. In the later you may want to have 2 warriors as military police. Still, often you want to recruit a worker first as without a worker a town will not become productive. You want your improved tiles to match the population able to use those tiles.

Once you are a republic you need to change your military strategy and disband most warriors. Do you have embassies? They reduce the risk of being attacked. Regarding your military you need to find a sweetspot of risk and reward. You border towns usually need a defender(even if it is an offensive unit like swordsman or medieval infantry), the towns far away from a potential front need no military.
 
There is a huge difference between republic and despotism. In the later you may want to have 2 warriors as military police. Still, often you want to recruit a worker first as without a worker a town will not become productive. You want your improved tiles to match the population able to use those tiles.

Once you are a republic you need to change your military strategy and disband most warriors. Do you have embassies? They reduce the risk of being attacked. Regarding your military you need to find a sweetspot of risk and reward. You border towns usually need a defender(even if it is an offensive unit like swordsman or medieval infantry), the towns far away from a potential front need no military.
I never have military in a town that is more than 2 moves from the border in a Republic. First turn of a Republic is disbanding military to provide shields for builds.

Also, founding a lot of cities on rivers or fresh water and building them to size 7 nearly eliminates any unit support costs issues. Getting 2 cities from 6 to 7 gets you 4 additional units supported, and reduces gpt unit costs by 8 per turn. If you have 10 size 7 cities, that's generally enough to support the army size you need at Monarch.

If a neighbor civ is involved in a war with someone else, or doesn't have powerful units that can defeat your best defenders, they won't really ever start a war with you.
 
that sounds like where i'm going wrong, every time i switch i have to put science research to zero or i'm big minus on gold. so we saying just have 1 unit in cities then bang out the workers? what if i get attacked (i do often)

As mentioned above, you do not need any military units in most cities, basically only in your border cities. Establish embassies with your neighbours early, and do not found new cities too close to them, i.e. your cultural borders should not touch.

I would recommend to be out of the "build workers" phase in your core cities when switching to republic.

Are you making sure your luxury slider is up enough to enable growth? Do not hesitate to put it higher if it is necessary to grow your cities.

Are you managing your workers manually?
That is one of the main advantages against the AI. The more efficient you are with your workers, the stronger your civ becomes.
When giving workers new orders, check your cities to see what is needed in which city.
You do not need to build a mine in a city where there are already improved, but not worked tiles.

What units and improvements are you building in your cities? Where are you founding your cities? A lot of improvements can be skipped by good city placements, like aequaducts if founding on a river. Founding cities three or less tiles away from each other means you do not need culture to be able to work all tiles. You practically also do not really need happiness buildings like temples.
 
I would recommend to be out of the "build workers" phase in your core cities when switching to republic.
I advise strongly against that. Switch to republic ASAP. That usually implies that more than 50% of your workers will be recruited in the early republic.

Say your research of republic in turn 78 - 1050 BC is 1 turn remaining. You end the turn und before the new turn starts you get the popup to leave despotism and do of course accept. That means the on paper you leave despotism in turn 78. By that time you may have 10 workers. 30 turns later in turn 108 - 390 BC you may have 32 workers.

During anarchy you cannot produce, but you can grow. If this changes due military police no longer applying, then you may want to disband warriors to complete a worker during anarchy. This reduces your population, but during anarchy this is no loss, in fact it can be a win as it reduces unhappiness and thus increases your food surplus and thus growth.
 
Quick update, tried again, got stuck in between the Arabs and the English, got the great library, never had horses, the Arabs and English where fighting for a thousand years without anyone making inroads, the turn after that war ended the Arabs declared war on me and sent about 100 Cavalry and wiped all my muskats out and took 18 cities (all of them) within 10 turns

now i know when i'm in a long war like that i havent got 100 of any attacking unit spare to just start another war the next turn and wipe someone out within 10 turns so how is it possible? annoying that no matter where you are on the continent you only manage to get either horses or iron while every other civ gets both and S&P when it comes, no way i can get to riflemen before the AI gets to cavalry
 
Just occurred to me to ask: Are you routinely playing with Accelerated Production switched on? Because I don't see how else a Monarch AI could be producing Cav-stacks that tall, almost immediately after fighting a long, stalemated war against somone else. If so, I would strongly advise to turn AP off: it was intended for use in multiplayer games and is not even close to properly balanced for single-player. And crucially, it applies to the AI Civs as well as your own, so it's compounding their 10% Monarch-discount on builds and growth.

And maybe stop building the GLib, and concentrate instead on learning how to improve your land more effectively, so you can research (or arm) yourself better during the early game using those increased tile-yields, before the AIs start running away with the game? After all, 400 shields = 40 Workers to improve your own land, or 13 Swords/Horses, or 20 Archers to take land from the AI. Or it's 5 ordinary Libs (10 if Scientific), which could have boosted your own research forever, instead of relying on picking up the AI's leftovers -- right up until you get involuntarily Educated (on their timetable, not yours).

Civ3 is basically won (or lost) during the early game. The longer you leave the AIs to their own devices before making a decisive move against anyone, the further ahead they will get. And if you're habitually waiting too long, they will use that advantage to roll over you. Every. Single. Time.
 
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Quick update, tried again, got stuck in between the Arabs and the English, got the great library, never had horses, the Arabs and English where fighting for a thousand years without anyone making inroads, the turn after that war ended the Arabs declared war on me and sent about 100 Cavalry and wiped all my muskats out and took 18 cities (all of them) within 10 turns

now i know when i'm in a long war like that i havent got 100 of any attacking unit spare to just start another war the next turn and wipe someone out within 10 turns so how is it possible? annoying that no matter where you are on the continent you only manage to get either horses or iron while every other civ gets both and S&P when it comes, no way i can get to riflemen before the AI gets to cavalry
Grinch, if you post one of the .sav files from your game to the forum, we can give you specific advice about things to consider. I am happy to look around one of your saves.
 
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