Something smells rotten in the state of Denmark: No Denmark fix?

Phoenix1595

Lord of the Two Lands
Joined
Nov 3, 2005
Messages
1,022
While it's great to see that the fall patch will include much needed fixes for vanilla warmongers, Japan and Germany, I'm disappointed that the developers did not fix the one DLC civ that is often criticized as less-than good and a top contender amongst forum members for civs to be fixed in the fall patch, the Danish.

It's a little disappointing, because Denmark has the potential for players to have a unique gameplay experience, but for the new economic and cultural mechanics of BNW. Poor Denmark often cannot effectively compete as played by the AI, and a player-controlled Denmark, while making great use of embarking and berserkers to pillage, is still at a disadvantage with other, more superior warmonger civs out there to play, and certainly cannot compete in anon-domination game against more powerful Econ/cultural-based civs. In a similar vein to the non-military changes to Germany and Japan, could Denmark also benefit from a non-military fix, if there is ever a patch made after this one?

Developers could take advantage of the unique historic and geographic attributes of Norse culture (let's face it, the Danish civ is really a stand-in for early medival Denmark, Norway, Greenland, and Iceland), and create UAs or UBs that strengthen Denmark's gameplay. The Norse were known for more than just raiding-- they happened to settle and flourish in some of the coldest, infertile areas of the planet during a particularly warm period of Earth's history, and were great seafaring traders who travelled throughout the seas and rivers of Europe to Africa, N. America, and the Middle East. Could something along the following lines of these possible UAs fix Denmark?

Land of the Midnight Sun: Danish cities gain an additional 1+ food from worked tundra tiles; or Denmark can build farms on tundra. Could make tundra the new desert post-Petra/DF.

Age of the Longship: Danish cargo ships have double trading distance from home city.

Any other thoughts? I'd gladly give up my ski infantry for something like these to make Denmark more playable. The Vikings deserve to thrive in Civ5!
 

EgyptRaider

Warlord
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
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142
Location
The Netherlands
All sound very good!

I really hope they implent something like this!
 

redwings1340

Emperor
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Sep 24, 2011
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Maryland
I think the concept behind Denmark (pillage and run) is good, but I'd propose one simple change:

-Along with the UA, Denmark also gets double gold from pillaging (or whatever would be balanced)

Right now we have a civ that has fast units that can move from on the coast, pilage, and leave, but aside from being good at this, the strategy still isn't that great. This fix would be simple but leave with a unique civ that's slightly better than it is now.

Maybe Denmark could also get a few one time beakers of science for pillaging if the target civ is higher up in tech than they are? It wouldn't be a huge change, but might be an interesting shift.
 

TheMarshmallowBear

Benelovent Chieftain of the Ursu Kingdom
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They could replace the Norwegian Ski Infantry with maybe a better Trading Post or a Unique Building that also enhances trade.
 

leadtothehead

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
64
I would propose removing Ski Infantry and replacing it with:

Fjord Herbergi -- Replaces Harbor, in addition to the normal bonuses also provides +1 gold to river tiles, melee ships built in city receive coastal raider promotion for free.

It would accurately depict the Vikings dominance of river trade in the dark ages and their settling of areas with both coastal and river access.
 

Depravo

Siring Bastards
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Maybe Denmark could also get a few one time beakers of science for pillaging if the target civ is higher up in tech than they are? It wouldn't be a huge change, but might be an interesting shift.

That's pretty nifty. +1.
 

therottweiler

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
89
I would propose removing Ski Infantry and replacing it with:

Fjord Herbergi -- Replaces Harbor, in addition to the normal bonuses also provides +1 gold to river tiles, melee ships built in city receive coastal raider promotion for free.

It would accurately depict the Vikings dominance of river trade in the dark ages and their settling of areas with both coastal and river access.

I like this. A well needed buff but not over powered. +1
 

Securion

Civ Veteran
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
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Earth (mostly..)
I would propose removing Ski Infantry and replacing it with:

Fjord Herbergi -- Replaces Harbor, in addition to the normal bonuses also provides +1 gold to river tiles, melee ships built in city receive coastal raider promotion for free.

It would accurately depict the Vikings dominance of river trade in the dark ages and their settling of areas with both coastal and river access.
This is an excellent idea!

Firaxis? Are you listening?
 

Securion

Civ Veteran
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Also; We actually paid money for Denmark. Its not fair to paying customers that this civ should suck so bad?
 

johnny_rudeboy

Warlord
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Messages
288
I think the focus should be on what made the Danish (and the rest of Scandinavians) special.
In the pre-christian culture in Scandinavia there was honor in killing an enemy but also a great deal of honor if one died in battle, since that ensured a special place in Valhalla. They where also very good explorers who settled land long away from Scandinavia sailing over oceans and up rivers.

UA #1 Asatro
Once enough faith has been gained to start a pantheon there is a choice to pick Asatro. Gain culture for every enemy killed. Also gain culture for every unit lost in battle. Once the renaissance is reached no culture for units lost in battle and only half the culture for enemies killed.

UA #2, Longboat.
Embarked Danish units can melee attack. +1 movement when moving along side a river. Ability to melee attack only active until the industrial era starts.

UA#3: Viking navigator
Can move over Oceans once Compass is researched. +1 Sight when embarked.

UU: Berserker, fine as it is.


Ski infantry, bye bye.
No pillaging cost, bye, bye. The vikings might pillage a lot but they dont jump in, pillage then jump out. They are there to fight.
 

katfish

Warlord
Joined
Aug 17, 2013
Messages
190
I think the concept behind Denmark (pillage and run) is good, but I'd propose one simple change:

-Along with the UA, Denmark also gets double gold from pillaging (or whatever would be balanced)

Right now we have a civ that has fast units that can move from on the coast, pilage, and leave, but aside from being good at this, the strategy still isn't that great. This fix would be simple but leave with a unique civ that's slightly better than it is now.

Maybe Denmark could also get a few one time beakers of science for pillaging if the target civ is higher up in tech than they are? It wouldn't be a huge change, but might be an interesting shift.

This. Give denmark 3x gold from pillaging.
 

Dogmouth

King
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
613
I like increasing the gold from pillaging. But I really hope they don't get a UB. They're a warmongering civ. Two UUs are perfectly appropriate.

That said, the ski infantry is a ridiculous and useless UU. Another UU is in order.
 

DemonMaster

A.K.A. Fenhorn
Joined
Oct 20, 2003
Messages
1,648
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Sweden
Denmark is not bad, but it is hard to play because so much things will depend on luck. You need iron to build Berserkers and the Ski Infantry is only good in tundra/snow/hills.
So as I wrote in another thread. Give Denmark a Tundra Coastal start. That is actually a buff. The Ski Infantry is actually very good up there and also, iron is fairly common up there.
 

Depravo

Siring Bastards
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No pillaging cost, bye, bye. The vikings might pillage a lot but they dont jump in, pillage then jump out. They are there to fight.

Show me an example of Vikings choosing to fight for the sheer joy of it. All armed groups seeking to leverage mobility against a more powerful opponent basically only fight when a) cornered b) paid to do so or c) an act of terror is considered necessary to extract tribute through intimidation. This part of the UA works fine.
 

Loucypher

King
Joined
Jun 3, 2012
Messages
797
All Denmark needs to become interesting is to ditch the Ski Infantry and exchange it with a Drakar. Give them a caravel-like unit at Compass, so you simulate their roaming the oceans before others. Really that's all they need. A Caravel replacement, same stats, just a full era earlier. Maybe enable embarkment on oceans for them at Compass as well, just for added flavor.
 

bonafide11

Worker
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Jun 8, 2006
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3,185
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STL
So as I wrote in another thread. Give Denmark a Tundra Coastal start. That is actually a buff. The Ski Infantry is actually very good up there and also, iron is fairly common up there.

Since I don't anticipate Denmark getting a full makeover like people here are suggesting, I would like to see a simple "fix" for them, and I think this one hits it on the head.
 

Fredgerd

Warlord
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Mar 18, 2010
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126
Location
Santa Cruz CA
I feel like anything involving more food doesn't do the Danes historical justice. Much of the pillaging they became so infamous for was due to a shortage of food in their own home land. I like the idea of trade route bonuses of some sort, in reference to Varangian control of the Baltic River systems, but I'll note that the way you've designed it is as a UA but you've replaced a UU. Civs generally get only one UA.

How about this?
Unique Unit: Longship
Replaces Cargo Ship
Longships may establish trade routes with other civs while at war with them. These trade routes cause the enemy player to lose the amount of gold that would normally be gained from the trade route. No science is gained for either side. Trade route may still be plundered so it must be defended.

This would fit in with the Danish flavor of looting and pillaging and would allow them the unique advantage of being able to maintain income while in a constant state of war.
 
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