Sons of Monarchy XIII: Catherine of Russia

Giant Wolfman

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Welcome to Sons of Monarchy: Round XIII

Our 13th round will feature Catherine of Russia
civ4screenshot0015c.jpg



Catherine is:
Imperialistic: +100% Great General Emergence, and 50% Faster Production of Settlers
Creative: +2 :culture: per city, and Double Production of Library, Theatre, and Colosseum

Imperialistic matched with creative means earlier settlers that could block off land more quickly than many others. A respectable trait combo

Russia's Starting Techs & Uniques:
Hunting & Mining
Research Institute: A laboratory that gives 2 free scientists in each city it is built
Cossack: A Cavalry that receives a +50% bonus versus Mounted Units

Research Institute is essentially a free Great Library in those cities you would want a laboratory. The problem is that it is just so late in the game; many games won't even see laboratories built at all, and even if they are, by this point two scientists are nice but small bananas. The cossack was originally one of the best UU's with a strength of 18(!) before it was nerfed long ago. It's a respectable UU, but only a minor upgrade over the standard cavalry.

The Start:
civ4screenshot0014f.jpg



No Huts, No Events, All Other Settings Standard
Spoiler Map Type :
Inland Sea (Think Mediterranean Sea).


To play: I am using the same process as the Noble's Club so those familiar with that excellent series just do the same thing. Download the attached zip files & unzip into your BTS/Saves/Worldbuilder folder. Go to Custom Scenarios, select the SoM Save corresponding to your desired difficulty level, and customize game settings as desired. You will need to add techs to barbs. To do so:
Spoiler :
zoom all the way in, open worldbuilder, and add the appropriate techs to the barbarian civilization. This means archery at monarch or higher, hunting at emperor or higher, agriculture at immortal or deity, and the wheel at deity.

Posters are encouraged to include: Thoughts on start/where to settle first and what initial tech path. Later saves can include position at 1 AD, liberalism race as a midgame checkpoint, and the final result. Players are encouraged to post as much as they desire, though screenshots/saves make receiving help easier. Spoiler details about the map and your playing for all details except regarding the opening screenshot.

Good luck, and happy civving!
 

Attachments

Although it relinquishes the plain sheeps, I have a strong feeling settling 1NW. Such great bureaucratic capital.
 
The sea is near (NW) 1NW loses only a shhep and gains a coast ( or 2?)
Scout should check what is east.
 
I am inclined to say the same as terri. But we do have a scout that can move and make the settlement discussion a lot easier.
 
Never played a map type like this so will give it a swirl later. Currently having a horrid time with the last SoM, but I'd like to complete that one first.

1NW looks like a fine bureau spot like Tachy said, but I hope it will have more than the 1 hill.
 
Also SIP is too near the edge of the map. Zero blocking potential.
 
Haven't played Civ 4 in a while so might give this one a bash on monarch / normal.

Am looking at a couple of options re: settling:

(i) SIP for reasons already stated.

(ii) Move settler 1NE then 1W so settle 1N of it's current position; this moves pigs into the BFC at the expense of a grassland hill and whatever's in the fog to the S. This only captures 1 of the FPs to the NW, but at least it keeps the plains hill sheep for some much needed hammers. FWIW I prefer this over SIP. Can understand that others might prefer settling 1NW instead.

(iii) Following up on @Tachywaxon's point re: a bureau capital, I can't help but notice there are what look like at least four FPs in the vicinity of the scout (2 to the W and 2 to the N partly under fog). As a result, I'm sorely tempted to move the scout 2NW to the plains hill and see if it's worth settling 1NW of the pigs. The only issue though is that delays settlement until T3.

BTW, I think the NW water is a lake.
 
Cathysaurus REX is a sentimental favorite of mine--I think she's top-shelf, but of course it's necessary to do something to keep research afloat since she doesn't get a real economic trait. Cheap Libraries help. Pottery and Writing both look like early priorities here.

I agree with LG: north is pretty good and will be really powerful under Bureau.

A point that I like to make in Nobles' Club that's worth making here: while Imperialistic does indeed grant boosted Settler production, it only boosts hammers, not food. Chopping and whipping Settlers gives better hammers. It's sometimes worth it to send a city making a Settler into starvation working hills in order to trim a turn or two off the build time.
 
zzz. So frustrating. Doing pretty well and then my 3rd town gets razed after losing vs a barb warrior in the city... at 9% odds. No way I am continuing.
 
Interesting game. Haven't really played a forum game in a while:

IMM/Normal to 540AD (no huts/events, ofc):

Spoiler :


Tachy was certainly right about a good bureau cap. After moving my Scout though (1W1SW) and noting the rivers all around, I decided to settle 1N instead of 1NW. I hate to lose the forest and the turn, but liked the fact that it kept river tiles to the east and the mountain sheep(I mine it early).

Ofc, the iron popping later helped this city too. I went AH>TW>Writing to start with the goal of actually going fast Alpha, which I did. After seeing horses so far away, I went BW first though...and still no copper..ugh. Luckily I did not have issues with barbs much and kept a few spawners about to W and E including my scout, who still lives..ha

Settled 2 fairly quick cities to the North and NE for rice/gold/fps and corn/wine. Not bad cities and both can help grow cottages for Moscow. corn/wine concerned me with possible Giggles attack but that never came and I was soon on good terms with Gilg and Boudi fairly soon. Boy did I settle in Boudi's face..ha

After Alpha, I trade around to backfill basic techs like POT, AG, religious stuff, masonry and was fairly even with AIs at this point.

Settled Rostov as 4th city much farther away than I'd usually like, but wanted that city with cow/fps/marble/gold. Good production site. Boudi just settled next to cow the turn before I could settle, but since we are creative I went for it. Chopped out Library first for extra culture early and soon overtook cow and never lost it. Parth is help too..ha ... Lost Shwegie by 1t in this city.

First GS made academy in Moscow. Fiddled around for a bit with teching Maths, Currency and Aesths (Wang got this fairly early) as the AI tech situation fluctuated and made me change my mind several times. Ended up eventually trading something for Maths which I part teched. Pumped some research to get Currency quickly and then finished up Aesths>Lit>Music quite easily. Music netted me Feud and MC not long after. Aeths got me Monarchy long before and made that switch early.

Built Great Library in a I guess the best food city on the coast. No city is that great for food. Moscow could have been one I guess if farmed, but much better Bureau cap.

Mauso in Moscow came easily. I don't always build these wonders, but the timing worked right and i have marble. So I timed the Great Artist for Music with a Golden Age after NE built in TGL city and Civil Service. (I've gotten into a bad habit of completely forgetting to make civic switches..ha...forgot to switch to Bureau after several turns in to the GA.)

At this point, my tech is pretty good. I pumped 3 GSs for a Philo bulb, 1 Bulb Edu, 1Bulb Lib which is where I stand now and just trade some old techs for Machinery after Lib Bulb.

So I can finish Lib this turn, but I will definitely save it instead and tech Nationalism in a few turns for MT bulb and go Cur stomping. However, I could just try for a Diplo win and push Lib out as far as I can - towards MM - given the current state of affairs. Not sure I can save it for Radio at this point, but may get free Physics. With GS in 2 turns I can part bulb PP and then head to AStro>MM. Not sure what I want to do. Probably Cur stompage.

Pics:

Mother Russia:

Spoiler :


Current Tech screen:

Spoiler :


Diplo:

Spoiler :


Moscow: (has 4 more cottages to work later)

Spoiler :



Wonders:

Spoiler :


 
zzz. So frustrating. Doing pretty well and then my 3rd town gets razed after losing vs a barb warrior in the city... at 9% odds. No way I am continuing.

Wow. You certainly are the opposite of me. Isn't that you who got the same similar bad luck in other games...?
 
Haven't played Civ in a month, gonna give this a try at Immortal all the same. Getting my butt kicked could be fun :p

Can't get a good read on the fog from the screenshot alone, but it looks like the two tiles to the East in the fog are forested. If after opening the save the grassland indeed shows forest in the fog, I will move scout to the desert hill and then figure out the next move. :think:
 
To 25 AD (Immortal)

Spoiler :
Settled 1N, since settler revealed it'd beat 1NW as bureau capital.

Found Sumerian REX SWINE soon, and thus decided to outrex him.

So at 25 AD I have 14 cities, barely living economy (but I have currency, maths and monarchy), BoudiGirl is my best buddy as usual... and I get DoWed by REX SWINE.

He's losing.

Lands:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0012.JPG

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0013.JPG


Diplo:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0014.JPG


I think I'm gonna feed that detestable bastard elepults, if only as matter of principle.
 
Almost to 1000 AD, monarch, my normal level, difficulty:

Spoiler :
SIP and focused on early expansion/defense. Built my first two cities close to Gilga and then expanded towards Boudica. I built one wonder, the great library, in novgorod. i foregoed the orcale in order to rex quickly since my first settlements were production light and i wanted to get my economy zooming quickly while REXing. i hired two scientists quickly in st. petersburg to bulb math and later bulbed philosophy from the first scientist produced in novgorod my GL/NE city. self teched construction after bulbing math and elepulted boudica. she had declared on willem so her cities bordering me were lightly defended. slow and steadily tearing through her territory right now. i've been suffering few losses and have been able to build economic buildings after quickly whipping/chopping my initial SoD. she hasn't capitulated yet but once she does i'll vassal her and then go after gilga with medieval units. i have such a tech advantage that i'm planning on libbing steel in the future. should be able to win domination very easily.

my current territory/tech race:

Civ4ScreenShot0007.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0008.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg
 
1060 AD

Spoiler :
LOL, I just met Wang! When he capped to Mehmed, nonetheless!

Won lib in 1010 AD, took Printing Press. I'm crushing everyone in tech, not sure if I want to war at all - my lands are great for commerce but fairly production poor. Though cannons and rifles could easily murder Giggles The REX SWINE, which is what I'll probably do.

Friendly with Boudica and Mehmed, the rest is bunch of heathens, with William vassaled to Joao.
 
Immortal to around 1AD
Spoiler :
Settled 1NW and teched AH > BW > TW > Writ > Aesth > (trade Alpha/poly/med/fish/masonry/pot/priest/Monary) Lit to start off with. With little forest in sight it seemed painfully obvious the best choice would be to abuse the IMP trait with 2 pop settler whips and get some great overflow into workers, or even better yet, axes/chariots.

So I settled my 2nd city to the West a bit and picked up a great FPriver/pig/copper sight. My 2nd city was rice/gold/FP up NE. My capital went worker > warriors to 4 pop while improving pig, sheep, and choose to mine the PHsheep. Immediately whipped a settler and qued a worker. My pig/copper city went barracks/whip/chop into non stop Axes.

My Capital did the same thing and I quickly owned up a very unsuspecting Giggles. From there I (3 tiles needed to road in) settled the marble/gold and grabbed a very early TGL/NE and am pushing my way onto Cuirs (should be whipping them by 250-300 AD).
 
Wow. You certainly are the opposite of me. Isn't that you who got the same similar bad luck in other games...?

Ya, I seem to have bad luck. I often loose vs barbs early on in games at ridicolus odds.
Just ruins the game. Sure, I could build more units but losing at odds less than 10% shouldn't be happening.
 
Immortal, Normal Speed, No Huts, No Events. Upto 1 AD. Third attempt.

I abandoned the first attempt almost right away as
Spoiler :
I saw all the flood plains to the north, went "Oooh!! Shinee onez!" and settled 2N. Only to discover to my horror that in salivating over a killer commerce capital, I completely missed the fact that it has zero hills! :lol:


The second attempt I was overrun by barbs. I haven't played in a while and the rust showed as I got owned by Barb spears and Axes.
Spoiler :
Didn't help that Giggles built the Great Wall! :mad:


Third attempt:
Spoiler :
Settled in place this time. A strong case can be made for moving North for a solid Buro cap but I wanted to rex hard out of the gates and didn't see a point to moving for that as the food was enough to support a settler pump.
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0000-6_zps8922dc55.jpg

Wish I could have grabbed that silver somehow though. But since we can't see it at the start, nothing to be done.


Tech path went Agriculture (need it for pottery anyway and gets discount to AH) -> Animal Husbandry -> Wheel -> Pottery -> Bronze Working -> Writing -> Alpha.

Teching Alpha was a mistake. I got to writing first and I thought I would get to Alpha quick too. But everyone else was almost there by the time I got it and I didn't get much trades out of it. Live and learn I guess.

The first three AIs I met were not very encouraging.
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0002-6_zps7d410c1d.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0003-6_zps2dc4930b.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0001-5_zpse36800db.jpg


Giggles even built the Great Wall again! Jerk! :cry:
Civ4ScreenShot0005-5_zpsb3e4ae18.jpg


The next three were some solid techers.
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0013-4_zps541d3b1d.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0008-5_zps97d1b91c.jpg

Bye bye, Liberalism!

Civ4ScreenShot0010-7_zps0e14f094.jpg


But Giggles and Boudi were kept pacified by giving into Giggles' demand for Alpha and converting to Hinduism as soon as Giggles did too. (Boudica founded it.)
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0009-6_zps07ec36dc.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0016-2_zps8f029910.jpg


I teched my way to Currency and it finally allowed to me to get some trades.
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0018-2_zps57bddd8f.jpg


Currency in hand and both neighbours at pleased, I rexed hard and settled ten cities by 1 AD.
I intend to move my capital to St. Petersburg
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0024-2_zpsb894b4b8.jpg


Moscow isn't a bad Buro cap to be fair. But St. Pete has gold, flood plains and more food. I don't think this is a monumental improvement, but I have other plans for Moscow. It might get the Heroic Epic and if the game goes that far, Iron Works.

Yeketerinburg will get Moai Statues and National Epic:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0025_zps81269c30.jpg


World tech picture:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0020-2_zps65af1f17.jpg


My current tech situation:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0023-3_zps906eb1e5.jpg


World diplomatic picture:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0021-4_zpsf4abfb48.jpg


My current plan is to simply sit back and tech away. There's no pressure for land. I have secured Horses and two sources of Iron, Marble and my neighbours are pleased towards me with heathen neighbours they don't like on the other side. Giggles likes Hereditary Rule to further get those brownie points piled up. In the short term I intend to hold onto Aesthetics until I at least get to Drama or some one else gets there and then trade it for what I can get and push to obtain the Music's GA. I have Giggles comfortably boxed in, so I can break out via him with Cuirassiers -> Cossacks.

My biggest problem right now is Willem the fool is in WHEOOHRN mode. He founded Judaism and is the only adherent. I am terrified the genius will declare on Boudica (board leader with 11 cities), promptly get curb-stomped and capitulate to her. But I guess I will have to cross that bridge when I get there and see if I can bribe her off him with something.

I need advice on this city:
Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0026-1_zps3752ee55.jpg


It's not in a bad spot, per se, but it's blocking two really nice cities by being there and lacks fresh water. I have a chariot chilling there and farming stragglers for XP and keeping an eye out for Giggles. I am building a couple Swordsmen now to take it. I will try and steal it if Giggles goes for it. But if I get it, I am strongly tempted to raze it and resettle two cities. Even if Giggles takes the Pigs site, I still feel the Wheat site will be better. (I can always liberate Giggles' pigs site later :p)


Thank you for reading, advice welcome and appreciated. :)

P.S. Inb4 someone says I need more workers! :p
 

Attachments

@Cseanny

Screenshots?
Saves? :3

Of course, that depends of the settlement, isn't it better to work a worker with high food and do a max OF into an IMP settler? Also depend of priorities...small question.
 
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