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Soren Johnson's Old World

Discussion in 'Old World' started by Casworon, Apr 14, 2020.

  1. Deggial

    Deggial Emperor

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    So.
    I thought I would watch this game for some time.
    I thought I would get it later this year, when the game has matured a little bit.
    I thought I would watch some more Let’s plays before I commit.

    Who was I kidding?
    I just bit the bullet, swallowed my concerns regarding Epic and purchased ‘Old World’.
    Hurray!

    Now my question:
    Play the main branch (which might be more stable) or the ‘test branch’ (which probably features more fixes and additions)?
    What did you install / do play?
     
  2. tedhebert

    tedhebert Emperor

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    Soren has explained earlier on in this thread that the 'test branch' allows for MP while the other doesn't... but he also warns that there's been very little testing on the MP so expect it to be more buggy
     
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  3. Deggial

    Deggial Emperor

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    Ah, okay, thank you!
    So, MP is the only difference? Actually, I don't care about MP. Like ... at all.
    Very well, if this branch is not a more up-to-date build, I might switch to the main branch, just to be safe. But I guess, an already started game will not be compatible? So that's for my next game.

    By the way ... I've started my first game as Babylon and enjoying it so far.
    I hope, my concerns verbalized earlier in this thread will not come true. But I have hopes! :)
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
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  4. riddleofsteel

    riddleofsteel Office Linebacker

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    Thank you! I'm glad there's other people out there who don't care about MP. I won't have anything get in the way of a proper single player product being developed!

    Regarding what families to use, is there a drawback to settling with the same one over and over? And how do you find out which ones want what? I thought I had dug through all the options in the game and there's still stuff I have no idea about.
     
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  5. King Abbas

    King Abbas Chieftain

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    Each city you build and decide to give to an already established family while there are still other unseated families available will cost you a hit in legitimacy.
     
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  6. riddleofsteel

    riddleofsteel Office Linebacker

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    Thanks. What are the benefits to using the same family?
     
  7. ashar26

    ashar26 Chieftain

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    I think this only the second game I have bought in early access, the other being Universim. Given how much the latter was developed over it's early access period, I'm excited to see where this game goes. I am a bit surprised how much I'm enjoying this at the moment, as I tend to like playing something other than a military focus in 4x games. I am cognizant that part of this was related to my frustration with the Civ6 team's late delivery as to whatever is coming next, but in particular the lack of making the code available for the modding community to fully unleash their awesomeness. I enjoy the role playing of the Dynasty mechanic - in my first Rome attempt, Remus did a kill all my children and then have his line take over, while in other attempts I have managed to stop this. I also enjoy the limitation of orders at the moment, although as I gain more skill at rising to such a challenge I gather it will become more mundane. I'm particularly excited to see what the modding community will do with the game? I've been following casters Quill18 and a couple of others, and I agree with one common compliment they have given the game - its UI, so informative. Again being an early access game, my expectations are not high, but I am pleasantly surprised at what it does have working. I'm looking forward to when casters master the game and use the "Undo" mechanic to help explain different strategies e.g "I have three options available to me in this turn, if I do A this happens, etc" A great learning tool as well as a don't need to reload a turn because I stuffed up, or as has happened to me in Civ - the outcome is not what I was lead to believe would happen. I like the maps so far, though I imagine as I learn how to play better, that may change - at present I like the breaks in mountain ranges - yay for natural passes. While as I said I'm not big into the military aspect of 4x games, I do like that the AI seems so far to know how to fight. Overall I have been looking for someone to meld the two biggies' approaches in 4x, Paradox and Firaxis, and this is scratching that itch.
     
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  8. snoochems

    snoochems Prince

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    Saw this in the Epic store, and pressed "get". Nothing happens. Tried through the Epic Launcher and a browser. Is this a bug? How do I actually 'get' it?
     
  9. Shadowhal

    Shadowhal Warlord

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    2 points to add to the point about picking single families vs multiple families:

    1. Each family has a focus and unlocks perks on a city, e.g. specific civic projects or boni to units. By sticking with a single family, I imagine you'd be limiting your growth in certain aspects of your empire.
    2. Founding a family seat (the first city given to a family) provides a large, immediate (one-off) bonus. For instance, founding the cleric seat founds a religion, founding a different seat gives 2 (?) citizens right off the bat, another gives a large bunch of civics (400?). So, again, by limiting yourself to one family you forego these large early benefits. In a game (probably) characterised by snowballing, that could add up.

    Of course, take these with a grain of salt, since I haven't yet taken the dive and bought the game. What I have pieced together from let's plays. I am considering though, which is quite the achievement for the game. With that, I also had a few questions.


    Most youtubers haven't shown footage of late game yet (not that I could see). How well are the game's systems holding up as you start having a dozen or more cities and many units to command? Is the orders systems still effective in limiting micro-management? Do the decisions you take still feel impactful? How bad is the "I know I have already won, but it won't be confirmed for another 50 turns" aspect affecting many 4X games?

    And a related question - how long do games typically last? How many turns, how many hours? Of course, this being EA, it might still change. But it seems to me that by turn 100 you are already solidly in mid-game and it may play a little faster than civilization, both in turns and hours. For instance, Sulla played to turn 100 (in c 8 hours) and essentially won, but would have probably needed a good deal more time/turns to hit the formal parameters. Explorminate's Rob played around 80 turns and that looked like maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of a game. It would be nice to have a game whose sessions don't last 20-30h (for me) to complete, with time being scarcer than it used to be.
     
  10. bite

    bite Unofficial Civilization Cartographer Moderator

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    If you are interested in Old World, there is a whole forum for it Here
     
  11. sherbz

    sherbz Emperor

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    So there is. Never saw it when i posted this up. Feel free to move it.
     
  12. Stringer1313

    Stringer1313 Emperor

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    Single family: Re single family: I THINK I read somewhere that only the cities ruled by Family A gets the perks of Family A but I should test that. But point taken in terms of one-off benefit. The other downside i supposed is that it makes you very dependent on one family's happiness, and if the one family is very unhappy then all your cities could have rebels. Having said t

    Slow down: My computer is OK (I'm not a computer person so I don't even know how to say what my specs are) and I'm at the end of the game with 12 cities. The slowdown is noticeable but it's not bad. The AI's turns are shockingly very fast. Definitely not as slow as Civ 6.

    Late game micromanagement: In terms of your late game questions: the issues remain but based solely on my own experience it is not NEARLY as bad as Civ 6 or any other 4X game i've played (like the endless series where micromanagement is a nightmare). My issue with late game now is that I have TOO MANY orders, mainly b/c my legitimacy is so jacked up. I never run out of them now; I have literally 30-40 left over each term. So orders have not effectively limited the micromanagement needs, which as always explode in the late game. I've started putting military units and workers to sleep, even whenI should be using them, b/c I'm too overwhelmed. The ONE EXCEPTION is when I need to move one unit from one end of the planet to the other, burning through 30 orders, but it's worth it, and even then i haven't run out of orders. (I bet they will start jacking up the cost of the shields for going beyond your fatigue limit.) But of course all of this is easily fixable. And probably if i increase the difficulty level I won't have this problem.

    Late game "end turn repeatedly until I win":
    - I have hit this point in my game, but I didn't hit it until i had completed 9 of my ambitions out of 10 -- much later than in Civ 6 (I play Emperor on Civ 6). I just need to robotically mash "end turn" 15 times (to build 5 cataphracts) and then I win. 15 end-turns is better than 100 end-turns, which I face in Civ on average.

    Late game and internal challenges:

    - Also this game is decent at creating internal challenges to your empire that don't rely on AI competence --- something that for some reason the Civ series never seems to get, b/c Civ challenges are almost entirely based on the AI of other Civs rather than internal challenges. So you have endless AI debates on Civ forums. Those AI debates will undoubtedly happen in this game too as with all 4X games but I think any AI issues are softened by the fact that some of your challenges are internal.

    - Having said that, the internal challenges are quite easy to overcome at late game compared to early game, because you have 10000 legitimacy and nothing can really hurt you; I can easily get docked 80 points of opinion from refusing to declare war on behalf of a family (probably the toughest internal challenge presented so far). So the trick is to somehow have the internal challenges be around the same level of difficulty throughout the game and not just in the beginning.

    - This is also pretty easily fixable, just by creating more random events at the end that are dependent upon late game things (like having a Legendary city, etc.) and that are a lot harder to overcome. They already have late-game-dependent events so they just need to jack those up. The consequences of various decisions remains the same throughout the game which also makes those late game events uninteresting - by then, I don't care if i lose or gain 400 gold coins/trees/metals/food (I still barely understand what food does; I know it feeds the army but that's it?), and I definitely do not care if I lose 2 Legitimacy points from not banishing a bastard, when I literally have 150 Legitimacy right now. I think the only resources that remain quite precious throughout the game are civic hammers, culture in cities, maybe # of citizens and maybe # of red shields when you are at war. So those are good pressure points to focus on.

    Length of game: I am playing third to easiest difficulty and i'm not a min-maxer. My total hours are about 12-15 just for one game.
     
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  13. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Moderator Action: Thread moved.
     
  14. Shadowhal

    Shadowhal Warlord

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    That was a very helpful answer, thank you!

    Oddly enough, I think Sulla mentioned in his stream that the game had fewer orders earlier on and play testers pushed hard for that limit to be raised. I guess it's one of those delicate balancing acts that EA can help refine. Obviously, base orders/legitimacy will need to increase over the game to allow you to manage an empire as opposed to a city state, but when you regularly have orders to spare later on, its resource value sharply decreases and it becomes a fairly non-binding constraint. Certainly, having an experienced heir unexpectedly come to the throne should present a real risk to a large empire (as it did in real life).

    I wonder if it made sense to include separate game set up option for the number of orders. At the moment, it seems rolled into a general difficulty setting, but if challenges in the game are both from internal and external sources, maybe it makes sense to be able to vary difficulty separately as well. I wonder if difficulty also impacts the number of orders that AIs get. Probably.
     
  15. Soren Johnson

    Soren Johnson Game Designer

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    We're constantly rebalancing orders. Players often want more orders, but my belief is you should always have NOT QUITE enough orders to do what you want to do.
     
  16. Stringer1313

    Stringer1313 Emperor

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    And of course after I made my long post, there were a few turns where I was grateful for having 75 orders (not exaggerating) b/c i needed to teleport some workers/settlers. And then my computer started slowing down a ton. but i finished!

    Btw is there some "patch notes" or something where we can see updates?
     
  17. Soren Johnson

    Soren Johnson Game Designer

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    Check the Discord tomorrow!
     
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  18. ashar26

    ashar26 Chieftain

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    I hear you, for me, it's not the game (CIV) per se, which I find generally o.k. to good. For me, it's the modding community which makes the o.k. game a great game, and has done at least as far back as I can remember. So I wonder how much modding Old World can accommodate? As I mentioned in another post, I'm not usually into the military route of 4x games, I find it fairly uninteresting after a while. Since Old World has been announced as primarily a military game, I'm hoping the modding community might make interesting alternatives available.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
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  19. Stringer1313

    Stringer1313 Emperor

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    Yes could someone please provide Discord guidance for old people? I've clicked the discord links on this thread and it goes nowhere. I'm on the home page of Discord and don't know what i'm supposed to do (I tried searching for old world but came up with nuthin')
     
  20. Casualty of war

    Casualty of war Prince

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    Really enjoying Old World, although I wish my kids would stop falling out of trees, getting trampled by horses and bleeding out from barfights. An occasional shuffling of heirs has worked out better for the kingdom though.

    Mostly playing on The Noble, and a lot of games that were challenging but going along swimmingly until teleporting Romans showed up. I realize I can also move my troops a ferocious distance but the AI seems to be attacking like they aren't even hampered by the Fog of War, like they are aware of where my troops are when they are well out of visibility. Aggravating, when they pop up and annihilate 4 of my troops without even getting off a shot. Open field might be ok, but enemy cities should have zone of control within their borders. Or at least some sort of a movement penalty.

    A mistake I was making in the earlier games was not making enough Workers. This is an old school, 2-3 Workers per city game. Or 2 and a Disciple, I guess.

    My current Egypt game, 150 turns deep, is starting to really bog my computer down. I have part of Greece, all of Babylonia and most of Gaul, so I do have a lot of cities. IIRC, Rome and I have 18 cities, Persia slightly behind. I get 70 Orders a Turn, so I am often leaving Orders on the table. Odd things that have happened are that Gaul conquered a generic Barbarian Camp and I actually got Greece to -1000 Furious. There's no coming back from that Furious!
     
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