Soren Johnson's Old World

[Elhoim]

Congratulations Soren! You fixed 1UPT. I have never liked it before, but a tight order system really did the job! Feather in the hat!

Yeah, and as he said on reddit, the city distance mechanic also allows these empty fields between them were combat can properly take place.

I like the restricted city placement, I always found it more of annoyance than a "deep strategic decision" in Civ.

 

[Stringer1313]

Hi all, not sure if this has been discussed already or not, but I'm wondering what you think about the limited city placement. I have played around 5-10 hours and although i enjoy most of the mechanics, I feel that the inability to place cities where you want, which in civ for example is quite a strategic and interesting decision, remove a bit of the fun in exploring and adapting. Sure you have 4-5 choices, but you will always go with the one that grabs the most resources I assume. So basically you know exactly from the start where all your cities are gonna go, and you don't need to think about it even a second.

Furthermore i also noticed that what happens is that other players will leave an unit on hold on a potential city placement for multiple years, like someone would wait on a parking spot until their relative arrives with the car. Feels a bit strange.

I like the limited city placement. I know you miss out on finding that perfect spot to put your city, but I have never found this mechanic to be that fun. I think conceptually the limited city placement would not work with Civ, but the context of old world it seems to make more sense. You aren't settling brand new frontiers but taking over people. Also, the borders of the city end up expanding quite a lot, much more than Civ cities. The other reason I like it is because I feel like it forces confrontation earlier, instead of civs trying to gobble up as much neutral space as possible before warring. The stakes feel a lot higher, and i like the concept of immediately having to war over territory--at least in the context of the classical era.

I'm torn about your second point. I completely agree that the concept of parking military is strange and most importantly, it is not fun. It's weird. Once I tried counter their parking by parking one of my dude in one of the city spaces. I think that prevented them from settling but eventually I moved him b/c I didn't want to play a game of chicken and just thought this was kind of dumb. To get around this I've started including settlers with my army when taking over a barbarian camp so I can settle it immediately.

I suppose a counterargument is that --- if you don't like the units parked there, then defeat them. After all, I'm sure that different civilizations "parked" ("occupied" being the operative therm) their military in an ambiguous neutral zone to claim de facto control -- even nowadays countries do that. Fighting their parked units creates tension which is what this game is very good at doing. And if you need to declare war to do it, then do it, after all, civs have probably fought wars over parked military units all the time.

At the end of the day though, it does kind of feel weird and cheesy. But even if you stopped allowing military units to park on a city tile, you could (perhaps not as easily) surround the city with military units so a settler can't get through -- that happens in civ all the time too with choke points.

One solution might be to allow settlers (and non-combat units) to occupy the same tiles as the military units (actually, all units) of those for whom you are not at war, though for some reason Civ has never implemented this ever, to my chagrin, though there must be some reason why they never allow this. (They did finally allow this for religious units in Civ 6 i think, finally). So the settler can just walk through military units, occupy the same space as them, and then all the military units get kicked out of the borders (unless you're at peace/allied/ or whatever allows a civ to put units on your territory). That would also stop allied units from sitting on your tiles randomly, preventing you from working the tile. And if war is declared while a non-combat unit is on top of the other civ's combat unit, then the non-combat unit gets kicked back to the closest tile where there is no other non-combat unit.

But that's been my gripe about all Civ games and they never fix it so maybe i'm missing some obvious reason why they don't. And i'm sure plenty disagree with me on this.

 

[Roald Amundsen]

Yeah, and as he said on reddit, the city distance mechanic also allows these empty fields between them were combat can properly take place.

I like the restricted city placement, I always found it more of annoyance than a "deep strategic decision" in Civ.

I'm liking this mechanic as well. It also solves the problem(s) of/with city spamming, it makes city cites feel special, it obsoletes the annoyance of bad AI city placement and makes early warfare against barbarians facinating! I love how they make hot spots on the map from the start!

 

[riddleofsteel]

I've been trying to incorporate everyone's advice and guidance in my playing and I started a much more piquant and protracted game this afternoon. Does anyone know if each faction is supposed to have unique graphics by the time development is finished? Just curious.

 

[Shadowhal]

Two ideas regarding unit parking on city sites:

1. Maybe a "limited" war status similar to the Endless series where you can attack outside respective borders without declaring war. I'm sure there were minor skirmishes or frictions in antiquity without a formal state of war. Actually, I'm not sure formal war declarations were that common to begin with.

2. Maybe some mechanism to "claim" territory before actually settling it and a diplomatic penalty for ignoring it? AoW Planetfall comes to mind, but I'm sure other games have done that.

 

[Loerwyn]

Another tip for people. This one is a little bit wordy, so bear with me.

Don't know what to upgrade with your builder? Can't decide where the best place to put a farm or a quarry is? Well...
So, the first part of this tip is if you hover over an improvement in the build menu, e.g. a farm, it comes up showing the yields on each tile. Obviously, the one you want to upgrade is the one with the greatest value. So you want to look for, say, a tile for a mine with an improvement of 7, 7.5, 8, etc. rather than 5, which is the base value. This is what the improvement will produce once it is built (I believe).
But Loerwyn, I want to know where the best place for an improvement I don't have yet is! Fear not, your majesty! One aspect of the build menu is it has 5 tabs, labelled G, W, R, U and C. 'G' is the default setting, showing the most relevant actions you can take. W is for Wonders, R for Rural, U for Urban, C for Culture. Selecting 'R' will show you ALL possible Rural improvements and tell you their requirements, and like ones you have unlocked, if you hover over the option it will show you the possible yields over each tile.

 

[Starwars]

And sometimes, you'll want to just hold off on building something. Always keep an eye on your economy as it is quite easy to "overbuild", resources can disappear pretty quickly. It's a similar thing to how you have to keep an eye on your orders, especially later in the game so that you take the actions that have highest priority.

 

[Loerwyn]

And sometimes, you'll want to just hold off on building something. Always keep an eye on your economy as it is quite easy to "overbuild", resources can disappear pretty quickly. It's a similar thing to how you have to keep an eye on your orders, especially later in the game so that you take the actions that have highest priority.

I agree, though I found gold to be quite plentiful or at least my least scarce resource, and you can use that to compensate for things - such as the early game lack of wood.

 

[Uli1328]

My favourite Civ was always Civ IV and my favourite mod Pie's Ancient Europe. So I guess it's no surprise that I love the game. It's quite easy to get into and great fun!

There is one question though, I can't find an answer to: Is there any other way to manage discontent in the cities apart from the festivals? The minus 40 discontent by holding a festival seems quite inefficient. Is there any other mechanic to manage it? Has any of you guys out there, already playing, found another way to tackle that issue? Thnx!

 

[Elhoim]

There is one question though, I can't find an answer to: Is there any other way to manage discontent in the cities apart from the festivals? The minus 40 discontent by holding a festival seems quite inefficient. Is there any other mechanic to manage it? Has any of you guys out there, already playing, found another way to tackle that issue? Thnx!

Yeah, quite a lot of options. First of all, it doesn't NEED to be at level 0, don't obsess over that (if that what you are aiming for). But instead find which is an acceptable level. The bonus for 0 is nice, but not game-changing. The penalty at 1 is negligible if your families are at very high level from other bonuses. The penalties for the higher levels are not that bad either. There are several ways to keep it down, for example:

- First of all, a unit of the same family.
- Having a state religion (careful, if there are other religions it can backfire). Christianity has an inherent happiness bonus.
- Tolerance law.
- Colosseum building.
- Tier IV projects.
- Events.
- Governor traits.

There are other, but I can't remember from the top of my head. If you play with a difficulty that adds +2 is quite easy to manage by the end game. In any case, if you can get it to a low increase level, you can run the festival every now and then to keep it in check. Also the effect of the festival increases with the city cultural level.

 

[Thrakse]

Another tip for people. This one is a little bit wordy, so bear with me.

Don't know what to upgrade with your builder? Can't decide where the best place to put a farm or a quarry is? Well...
So, the first part of this tip is if you hover over an improvement in the build menu, e.g. a farm, it comes up showing the yields on each tile. Obviously, the one you want to upgrade is the one with the greatest value. So you want to look for, say, a tile for a mine with an improvement of 7, 7.5, 8, etc. rather than 5, which is the base value. This is what the improvement will produce once it is built (I believe).
But Loerwyn, I want to know where the best place for an improvement I don't have yet is! Fear not, your majesty! One aspect of the build menu is it has 5 tabs, labelled G, W, R, U and C. 'G' is the default setting, showing the most relevant actions you can take. W is for Wonders, R for Rural, U for Urban, C for Culture. Selecting 'R' will show you ALL possible Rural improvements and tell you their requirements, and like ones you have unlocked, if you hover over the option it will show you the possible yields over each tile.

I think the GWRUC system is brand new as two days ago I didn't had it. So that's good.

It is indeed solving a big interface issue, but unfortunately still quite clumsy especially when the user interface elements are increased in size. I think it would be good to have a smaller menu for this and easier to see.

I got the law that let you Buy Tiles. Life of me I can't see how to buy tiles. Any idea?

Also when I click on the discord link I end up on my own server, I am probably confused how to use it.

Also one thing which is very unclear and has no tutorial so far is the specialist - how to add them and build them in the cities. Once I understood they are powerful but it was complicated. Is there no purpose to citizens besides to be upgraded to specialists?

 

[Dark_Jedi06]

I think the GWRUC system is brand new as two days ago I didn't had it. So that's good.

It is indeed solving a big interface issue, but unfortunately still quite clumsy especially when the user interface elements are increased in size. I think it would be good to have a smaller menu for this and easier to see.

I got the law that let you Buy Tiles. Life of me I can't see how to buy tiles. Any idea?

Also when I click on the discord link I end up on my own server, I am probably confused how to use it.

Also one thing which is very unclear and has no tutorial so far is the specialist - how to add them and build them in the cities. Once I understood they are powerful but it was complicated. Is there no purpose to citizens besides to be upgraded to specialists?

To buy tiles, move a worker to an unclaimed tile that's adjacent to your current borders and it will show as an option in the workers actions. Costs orders and gold IIRC.

 

[Elhoim]

Also one thing which is very unclear and has no tutorial so far is the specialist - how to add them and build them in the cities. Once I understood they are powerful but it was complicated. Is there no purpose to citizens besides to be upgraded to specialists?

I think they add a small order bonus.

 

[Uli1328]

Yeah, quite a lot of options. First of all, it doesn't NEED to be at level 0, don't obsess over that (if that what you are aiming for). But instead find which is an acceptable level. The bonus for 0 is nice, but not game-changing. The penalty at 1 is negligible if your families are at very high level from other bonuses. The penalties for the higher levels are not that bad either. There are several ways to keep it down, for example:

- First of all, a unit of the same family.
- Having a state religion (careful, if there are other religions it can backfire). Christianity has an inherent happiness bonus.
- Tolerance law.
- Colosseum building.
- Tier IV projects.
- Events.
- Governor traits.

There are other, but I can't remember from the top of my head. If you play with a difficulty that adds +2 is quite easy to manage by the end game. In any case, if you can get it to a low increase level, you can run the festival every now and then to keep it in check. Also the effect of the festival increases with the city cultural level.

Thank you so much! This really helps...

 

[Stringer1313]

I think the GWRUC system is brand new as two days ago I didn't had it. So that's good.

I got the law that let you Buy Tiles. Life of me I can't see how to buy tiles. Any idea?

Also when I click on the discord link I end up on my own server, I am probably confused how to use it.

To buy a tile, move a worker (or disciple!) onto the space you want to colonize, and you'll see an option to do so - it costs money.

I don't understand how Discord works and never will b/c i am old. I would so appreciate it if someone could post patch notes on this forum on a regular basis.

 

[Casualty of war]

I saw the new Sentry option for units (Sleep unless a Barb gets close), which is welcome. Thank you for that, and CivVI should definitely have it also.

Except 5 tiles away is probably only 2 Orders worth of move, so my troops are still going to get bushwacked by units coming from out of the Fog. I have issues with the opposing forces "knowing" where my troops are before they have reciprocal visibility. I never see the opposition send a troop even slightly off-course when they are maneuvering to engage, and if they are approaching at 1 tile per Order to make microadjustments as they come then they are operating with a reserve of Orders that I can't match. I haven't witnessed any opposition mistakes on approach personally or while watching playthroughs.

I love so much about this game but that has brought me to ragequit multiple times already. When our military strengths are Similar but they take out 4 Units of my army on an unscouted approach, losing none of theirs, suddenly our military strengths are very much not Similar any more. Scouts should be fair game in the field too, yes, even my own.

The minor concern, that has been voiced before, is the color palette. My turquoise troops mixed in with a bunch of turquoise Danes turned into quite a mess. i would like to suggest there is a main color for the culture and a secondary color for Family affiliation, Barbs staying a single, differentiated color.

I will periodically fire up a game to see what tweaks have been made, and I feel it was money well spent since I've already gotten MANY hours of enjoyable play out of Old World, but as it sits right now it has a frustrating flaw. Or it's an intentional feature and I simply haven't adjusted my play style sufficiently.

 

[DaviddesJ]

If you "ragequit" ever that seems kind of sad. I want the game to surprise me and even sometimes completely foil my expectations and plans. That's what keeps it interesting.

 

[steveg700]

So, how do borders expand? I've been waiting forever for some resources to get absorbed, but the rate of expansion is pretty negligible. I heard that population increases expands borders, but that doesn't seem to be happening. I know there's a law for buying tiles, but all border expansion in a game can't really merely on laws.

Also, there is no production per se in the game, so what determines how long it takes to build anything? It takes eight years to build a chariot unit? As much time as it takes to build a wonder?

Looking at my neighbors, I must be missing some points because their borders seem to expand faster and they certainly crank out way more units.

 

[steveg700]

If you "ragequit" ever that seems kind of sad. I want the game to surprise me and even sometimes completely foil my expectations and plans. That's what keeps it interesting.

Well, la de da.

It may be kind of sad, but it's also quite sane and reasonable for people do get bothered when they invest time to plan and form decisions, and then those efforts are dashed by either a random event, missing information, or simply the difficulty in navigating the UI. It's early-access game, so such things happen. If there's nothing to learn from, no mistake discovered in postmortem, then it's Lucy jerking away the football. That kind of surprise loses its charm quickly.

 

[Elhoim]

So, how do borders expand? I've been waiting forever for some resources to get absorbed, but the rate of expansion is pretty negligible. I heard that population increases expands borders, but that doesn't seem to be happening. I know there's a law for buying tiles, but all border expansion in a game can't really merely on laws.

When culture reaches a new threshold, and also placing an specialist on tile "culture bombs" the surrounding ones.

Also, there is no production per se in the game, so what determines how long it takes to build anything? It takes eight years to build a chariot unit? As much time as it takes to build a wonder?

There's "production", but separated in 3: Growth is for settlers/workers/etc, shields are for military units, civics is for projects and specialists. Build barracks and ranges to increase the rate at which you create units. Wonder build time is fixed, but with a builder leader you can stack workers to cut years by half.