Soren Johnson's Old World

[riddleofsteel]

analogous settlers, workers etc. from a Landowner family ...
Workers can also harvest (regrowing) wood en passant from forest tiles while moving around for their next job (or building roads).

Oh. Do you only build workers with a landowner family? And is there some benefit to doing that, or is it just for organizational purposes?
Edit: Never mind. I presume you're echoing what Elhoim said. I didn't know there was a benefit to that. Cool!

 

[Silver Marmot]

Landowners are great for militia/conscripts in addition to workers/settlers, and then rural specialists if growth units aren't needed. You can target rural specialists on food/mines/quarries to specialize the city in growth/training/civics later on.

I like militia early game given how cheap they are.

 

[riddleofsteel]

Landowners are great for militia/conscripts in addition to workers/settlers, and then rural specialists if growth units aren't needed. You can target rural specialists on food/mines/quarries to specialize the city in growth/training/civics later on.

I like militia early game given how cheap they are.

Hey, I never even considered that. How do I see growth units? And do you mean emphasizing specialists once the city has grown "big enough"?

 

[Silver Marmot]

Growth units are the ones at the top of the list--I think just workers, settlers, scouts, militia, conscripts and disciples. Their production speed is based on the city's growth. I generally don't train specialists until I've exhausted my immediate need for settlers, workers, militia, etc.

 

[riddleofsteel]

Growth units are the ones at the top of the list--I think just workers, settlers, scouts, militia, conscripts and disciples. Their production speed is based on the city's growth. I generally don't train specialists until I've exhausted my immediate need for settlers, workers, militia, etc.

Cool. I just tried that system in a Rome game. It got confusing remembering to use certain cities for certain things, but I just need to get used to it. I got stomped early in a war against Persia that I initiated, haha. Out of curiosity, what should I do with Remus? I usually make him a battlefield general.

 

[Silver Marmot]

Don't think there's anything you can do with Remus except make him a general. Takes a while to unlock governors.

 

[steveg700]

analogous settlers, workers etc. from a Landowner family ...
Workers can also harvest (regrowing) wood en passant from forest tiles while moving around for their next job (or building roads).

Well, worth noting that workers can harvest scrub in passing as a 0-order free action. Before forestry, clearing is what you gotta get by with.

But if you clear scrubs or woods while they're regrowing, they're gone for good. Another early short-term-thinking mistake I indulged in.

Funny dichotomy that. In Civ VI, chopping is the assumed value of woods (even after all the patching), while Old World it's a luxury that will often be ill-afforded.

 

[tzu]

I just meant, if a worker is moving onto a forest tile because of other reasons (passing by to next job / road) anyway (while the civ is 'desperately needing wood'), the worker can efficiently invest 1 order for harvesting (not clearing) additional wood.

 

[Silver Marmot]

My initial impression is that Forestry is too strong relative to chopping. Chopping means spending a minimum of 2 orders per 20 wood in your own territory, 4 per 40 wood if you clear (1 order to move into forest, 1 to chop, 2 to clear). You can always chop outside your territory but that means another 2-3+ orders to move your worker somewhere else (and again when you move him next), plus the yields are slightly worse. Lumbermills are forever. Also Polis precedes Forestry and it leads to the Free Settler card as well, so overall it seems like the optimal research path as long as you have trees.

Lumber is often one of the more expensive resources so repeatedly buying is usually non-viable.

 

[riddleofsteel]

Well, worth noting that workers can harvest scrub in passing as a 0-order free action. Before forestry, clearing is what you gotta get by with.

But if you clear scrubs or woods while they're regrowing, they're gone for good. Another early short-term-thinking mistake I indulged in.

Funny dichotomy that. In Civ VI, chopping is the assumed value of woods (even after all the patching), while Old World it's a luxury that will often be ill-afforded.

Yeah, I've been doing the same thing. I'll try to avoid clearing until the land is regrown. I'm noticing that I have had to un-learn much of my Civ behavior, haha.

 

[steveg700]

My initial impression is that Forestry is too strong relative to chopping. Chopping means spending a minimum of 2 orders per 20 wood in your own territory, 4 per 40 wood if you clear (1 order to move into forest, 1 to chop, 2 to clear). You can always chop outside your territory but that means another 2-3+ orders to move your worker somewhere else (and again when you move him next), plus the yields are slightly worse. Lumbermills are forever. Also Polis precedes Forestry and it leads to the Free Settler card as well, so overall it seems like the optimal research path as long as you have trees.

Lumber is often one of the more expensive resources so repeatedly buying is usually non-viable.

Well, I think it's safe to say that Forestry (i.e. lumbermills) is intended to be superior to chopping hands-down. After lumbermills, you only chop when woods are in the way.

Presumably market prices are determined by supply and demand, and the expense reflects that buying is in much greater excess than selling. I'm good with that. I have a bigger problem with other resources being too cheap because they are not terrain-dependent. Even arid land (desert) can be farmed. Like said, at a certain point in the game, I can build any wonder at any time except for the wood requirement.

 

[Silver Marmot]

Of course building lumbermills should be superior in the long-term, but as things stand I don't think chopping is a viable alternative. Archers require 100 wood which means 10 orders at a minimum to chop. That's a non-starter. Even ignoring units it's still difficult to meet wood requirements for improvements over time. Forestry seems too important right now.

 

[steveg700]

Is the rotation tile graphics a recent development? It does help with the cookie-cutter look in a game where you spam lots of the same improvements.

Guess it'll be a while before aqueducts chain properly. Still trying to figure out the right instance for them. They provide a fresh water bonus farms, but why not just build more farms, which generate more food than an aqueduct while also providing an adjacency bonuses. Fresh water is only +20%, so it's the same as two adjacent farms (+10% each), right?

 

[steveg700]

Of course building lumbermills should be superior in the long-term, but as things stand I don't think chopping is a viable alternative. Archers require 100 wood which means 10 orders at a minimum to chop. That's a non-starter. Even ignoring units it's still difficult to meet wood requirements for improvements over time. Forestry seems too important right now.

I would tend to say it's a little of column A and a little of column B. The chops ain't great, but archers are also too expensive at 100 wood a pop. Most units require diversity. I imagine a chariot requires a bit more wood than a bow.

To get real trade going, you can't just have one hard-up resource that creates haves and have-nots while everyone is capable of being a mogul of stone or metal (I'm working from the premise that food needs to be highly available).

 

[riddleofsteel]

Now, what if you're Assyrian or Babylonian or a nation that doesn't have Landowners or Heroes? Also, tyranny or freedom? Centralization or vassalage? Haha. The benefits look fine and dandy, but the extra unhappiness always makes me feel like I'm sitting on a time bomb.

 

[Elhoim]

Now, what if you're Assyrian or Babylonian or a nation that doesn't have Landowners or Heroes? Also, tyranny or freedom? Centralization or vassalage? Haha. The benefits look fine and dandy, but the extra unhappiness always makes me feel like I'm sitting on a time bomb.

Nah, don't worry about it TOO much. Having it at 0 is more of an achievement than "what should be". I'm playing with +6 unhappiness and it's quite fun, in a sense that unhappiness of the population is a given (kinda like in RL), and you work on mitigation instead of elimination.

 

[Silver Marmot]

Agree re unhappiness -- I think you just have to learn to live with it at higher difficulties rather than obsess over eliminating it through festivals, etc. I'd rather have the extra five orders from slavery in many cases.

 

[footslogger]

I've just started playing the game and find that I can only scroll the map with keyboard commands. I can't see anything under the control menu to allow me to scroll with the mouse. Help please!

 

[Stringer1313]

Is anyone else have major performance issues spike around turn 90 / around ambition 6? Changing graphics to the bare minimum doesn't help so I think it's something else. And i only play 4 person maps.

 

[riddleofsteel]

Is anyone else have major performance issues spike around turn 90 / around ambition 6? Changing graphics to the bare minimum doesn't help so I think it's something else. And i only play 4 person maps.

I've noticed a slight increase in delays/chuggy-ness getting near that time, but not 90 turns and not 6 ambitions.