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Soren Johnson's Old World

Discussion in 'Old World' started by Casworon, Apr 14, 2020.

  1. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    Does the amount of Orders per turn increase or can it be increased later? Naturally, or by some buildings, abilities, etc.? Does this system put you before difficult choices? Or can you just max out something with no real detriment to something else?
     
  2. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

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    Thanks. I think that it would be very cool if everything cost Orders in some way, including things that are constantly active. Maybe that'll be something that can be modded.
     
  3. Mistoltin

    Mistoltin Chieftain

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    Well if your workers are in the middle of building something, it actually still costs orders beginning of turn. Everything does cost orders including promoting soldiers, healing units, assigning characters to be generals or members of the council, starting a mission with council members etc. Orders per turn can be increased and this is a big part of developing your economy. You can increase them with improvements and laws. In single player, you can also increase them by legitimacy, which is determined by achievements you complete and events, and from characters when they are governing cities or as members of the ruling council.

    Limited orders per turn does lead to tough decisions in some parts of the game, especially warring.
     
    _hero_ and Atlas627 like this.
  4. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    It does look very Civ V. Which I can still appreciate. I like both 5 & 6's different styles :)
     
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  5. Soren Johnson

    Soren Johnson Game Designer

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    There are many different ways to increase orders over time - your Legitimacy, improvements like Garrisons, specialists like Acolytes, resources like Horses, various Laws and Theologies. A simple choice you make very early is Slavery (+5 Orders/Year) vs Freedom (+2 Science/City), for example.
     
    679x, j51, conorbebe and 7 others like this.
  6. footslogger

    footslogger Warlord

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    I like the sound of this game. I like the way it limits itself to ancient/classical times. The passage through the many ages in civ games always feels too rushed to be enjoyable to me. I have confidence that Soren would only put out a game with a challenging AI - in this regard can anyone confirm that 1upt works better here? My other query concerns map generation - are they always somewhat close to historical reality or completely random?
     
  7. criZp

    criZp Emperor

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    yes but civ 5 was not that brown.
     
  8. PotatoMcWhiskey

    PotatoMcWhiskey Chieftain

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    Graphically to me at least, it feels like they took the colour pallette of Civ 6 (things are generally a bit brighter than 5) but did a bit more of the style of 5 in terms of art direction with higher fidelity.

    I've also been in the Beta, and have spent about 40ish or less hours with the game, still get crushed on the higher difficulties due to me being greedy and bad. Might share some AARs here, although I can't post screenshots so they will be text only.
     
  9. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    Civ5 was nothing but brown--with a few accents of brownish green and brownish grey. Civ5 was truly ugly, except for its leader scenes.
     
  10. tamperer78

    tamperer78 Chieftain

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    Hi @Soren Johnson and all you lucky beta testers out there. I am pretty excited for Old World. Pre-ordered already, hoping to get into the early access gameplay soon. How soon? That is the question.

    Someone mentioned late game crossbows and pikes as being medieval weapons, I think the Roman era cheiroballista and phalanx long spears (sarissa) would count? ;)

    (Cheiroballista or manuballista: The name of the weapon is composed of the Greek words for 'hand' and 'shooter' implying that portable versions might also have existed, similar to crossbows. -wikipedia, references: Warfare in the Classical World, by Warry, J.)
    See also: Gastraphetes.
     
  11. criZp

    criZp Emperor

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    this isn't true, civ 5 had a lot of nice green vegetation without the brown tint, just google civ 5 and you see that in every picture
     
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  12. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    It is true. I've poured hundreds of hours into it in its day and replayed it for a few hours a few months ago. It was ugly in 2010, and it's only gotten uglier since. Civ5 was an unfortunate victim of the misguided "real life is brown and grey" trope, which was quite popular at the time (see also: Skyrim) and to some extent still is.

    Fortunately, Old World looks much better, much more vibrant and lively.
     
  13. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    The gastraphetes or 'belly bow' (because you had to brace it against your feet and pull up with the big stomach muscles to cock it) or crossbow was invented about 400 BCE in Syracuse, along with the larger katapeltes ('shield piercer') or catapult. Intriguingly, this is very close to the first mention of crossbows in China, so apparently "when it's time to crossbow, people will crossbow".
    The problem is, there is no indication of the Romans or anybody else in the west using crossbows in any numbers in field battles - they appear to have been strictly fortress defense weapons. All the archeological evidence of cheiroballista, for instance, have been found in the remains of Roman border forts. The crossbow may have also been a hunting weapon, since the Picts apparently used it only or primarily as such (no Pict petroglyph shows a crossbow being used in battle, only by individuals hunting) and it is now assumed that the Picts got the crossbow from the Romans. Tellingly, the Picts also had regular bows firing poisoned arrows that they used in Battle, and numerous Roman auxiliary units listed in the Notitia Dignatorum are labeled Saggitarii - archers.

    And, correct, Phillip and Alexander's Pezhetairoi ("Foot Companions") were pikemen armed with the long sarissa and the front ranks, at least, of the Successor phalanx were in metal armor, so they would have been indistinguishable from late Medieval pikemen except in the quality of the metal.
    But, the Phalanx of pikemen as used by Alexander and his Successors was decisively defeated by the more-flexible Roman Legions and disappeared for the next 1500 years in the west. The Imperial Roman lanciarii that were added to the Legion to deal with Sarmatian heavy cavalry in the 1st - 2nd centuries CE appear to have been spears rather than pikes - there is no illustration or description that I know of that indicates that they were held in both hands, only wielded with shield in one hand like a spear. The fact that the early Byzantine and late Imperial Roman infantry were spearmen with a long sword and heavy shield I think reinforces this - the resulting Thematic Byzantine and "Romano-British" post-Roman infantry could deal with either enemy foot or mounted troops pretty handily.

    Pikes and crossbows in general are two examples of weapons that 'came and went'. The Vulture Stele shows what appears to be a pike phalanx in Sumer in 2600 BCE (long spears held in both hands with a second man holding a head-to-foot shield covering both men), and the crossbow appears to have been used extensively in China throughout the Classical Era but only rarely in the west (possibly due to the more efficient Chinese 'trigger mechanism' but I suspect also because Oriental warfare in general placed more emphasis on missile fire than Greek or Roman or later European warfare did) before the late Middle Ages. Another 'peculiarity' is that the equipment for a fully-armored pikeman or crossbowman was over 3 times more expensive to produce than an early matchlock musket (figures from 1472 CE in Spain: cost of a helmet, breastplate and pike was 3.25 ducats, cost of an arquebus was 1 ducat), so that the adoption of the more 'advanced' weapon actually saved money initially!
     
  14. riddleofsteel

    riddleofsteel Office Linebacker

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    Couldn't agree more. I don't understand all the sabre-rattling and indignation towards Epic. Honestly the outrage seems a bit contemptible to me. More competition is a good thing, right? I really wish I'd gotten into the beta for this, it sounds amazing. I'm very much looking forward to experiencing the more intimate touches they've added to the formula.
     
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  15. Krajzen

    Krajzen Deity

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    Geez, as if I had not enough potentially great games which will endanger my college
     
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  16. Casworon

    Casworon Prince

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    @Soren Johnson

    I love Offworld Trading Company and I've noticed that you have also brought the global market mechanic into Oldworld.

    Endless Legend also has a market mechanic. However its something that some players rarely use. It is in also side menu while here it's right at the top of the screen.

    While the Market in Offworld Trading Company is the focus of the game how much impact does it have in Oldworld? Is it something you expect players to interact with every game or only when they are doing an 'economic playthrough'?
     
    nzcamel likes this.
  17. Shadowhal

    Shadowhal Warlord

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    I'd been waiting for some time to learn more about this game and the details revealed so far do not disappoint. Clearly, there are still lots of questions, so maybe one of the beta testers could help answer them.

    From the PCGamer article I understand that there are two ways to win the game - "ambitions" and victory points. Is that right? Is victory point like the score victory in civ or the fame victory in humanity (however much/little we know about that one) or something else entirely? Also, about ambitions:
    • There is player choice which one(s) to pick and pursue?
    • They arise (only?) dynamically from play and events or are there standard ones as well?
    • They are not the same for all players?
    • They increase in difficulty the more you complete?
    • Do you typically have more than one ambition active or is it strictly sequential, i.e. complete ambition 2 before you know and can start on ambition 3 etc.?
    My other reflection was on game length. From a vague view on the tech tree and the fact that you may not research all of them, my impression is that games may be a little quicker than civ. Would that be a fair assumption? On the other hand, maps are supposed to be larger than in civ. So, with orders limiting the ability to move large armies around, that either means longer games or a limited ability to wage distant wars.

    I also saw some differing statements on permanent orders. Can some orders be bound up repeatedly, e.g. from found a city or constructing a building? A bit like influence disks from Eclipse, if you know the board game. That would be a pretty neat way to address ICS and I had hoped more 4X titles would adopt something on those lines.

    One more thing: are maps randomly generated or strictly historical? Some screenshots looked like real locations.

    Seems like a great period for civ-like 4X games is upon us. Awesome!
     
  18. footslogger

    footslogger Warlord

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    I noticed a sailboat in one screenshot. Is naval combat in the game?
     
  19. Jkchart

    Jkchart Emperor

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    Welcome back Soren! Thank you for Civ IV and Offworld Trading Company - very excited to try Old World. Best of luck.
     
  20. Soren Johnson

    Soren Johnson Game Designer

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    The player definitely gets to choose ambitions, and that happens in a number of ways. First, each new leader gets to pick an ambition. Also, ambitions can come from events. Finally, your heirs might have "desired" ambitions, which are automatically added if they get the throne. The system dynamically chooses which ambitions are best for you based on the game state and the difficulty of the ambitions you have committed to so far.
     
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