Sorry to be a broken record

Crusis

Warlord
Joined
Oct 26, 2005
Messages
150
But again, volcanoes are a pain in the arse.

They're not destroying my cities, in fact they haven't even happened on my viewable map. But they're happening all over the place under the fog of war and being reported to me. They also report any destroyed improvements, spoiling the fog of war because it's clear what direction the affected civ is in since the map jumps that way.

I'm posting a picture. Look at the frequency of the volcano events! These are even more close together than the rest have been, but I finally took the screenshot and posted this picture after the first few dozen events.

Last time I mentioned this I was told that if I don't like it, turn it off. Sure, that's what I'll do, but I thought others might feel the same way, so I want to share too. We all want C2C to be the best it can be, even those of us who know nothing about programming. We do know about gaming, though, and this gamer feels that volcanoes do not add enough to the game to justify their inclusion with their current level of issues. Just sayin', it's an opinion, if you don't like it then don't use it. I've been playing Civ since I bought it for my Amiga the day Civ I came out. I've seen a lot of frustrating things, that's why I don't play Civ V. This mod is SO MUCH better than Civ V. But the volcanoes are just not worth it for what little they add to the game.
 

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Crusis

Warlord
Joined
Oct 26, 2005
Messages
150
The thing is that it's not only a pain in the rear for the map to be jumping all over each turn and for fog of war information to be revealed without reason, it's not really even realistic. Each year worldwide a couple of volcanoes do erupt, but they're such a hugely small portion of the Earth's surface that on CIV IV maps they shouldn't even be one square. Not to mention that on the volcanoes that aren't erupting, most have intensely fertile agriculture on their slopes.

The volcano event is meant to add flavor, I understand. But the map jumping and the frequency of the event are completely out of whack.
 

Thunderbrd

C2C War Dog
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
29,145
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Las Vegas
I think I can counter both main points:
1)The frequency of volcanoes does seem to be linked to the amount of TIME that is passing. Thus the Prehistoric era sees a LOT of volcanic events as each turn is a great many years. You don't see hardly any once you reach modern for that reason.
2)I agree about the scale, depending on the size of map your playing. But Civ has ALWAYS forced us to see the size of a plot, indeed the time size of a turn, as existing in two states, as a broad stroke overview, AND as if it were a zoomed in as a local event in time/space. We do this somehow at exactly the same time. But imagine if we didn't? We'd make every month a turn in all ages and maps would be required to be 100000x100000 plots at least. Try getting from Caveman2Cosmos when it takes 10000 turns to get to the next tech!

My point is, approximations are necessary. But this isn't the only place some will balk at how approximations are handled. Perhaps Volcanoes should be a Bug option for those who feel that it disrupts their ability to envision the game dimensions and suspend disbelief.

Along the way of some current tasks, I could put an option in place, but I wouldn't know how to tie the event into the option so I'd need some outside help with that.

Your mention of intensely fertile agriculture on their slopes though... Should max out at +1:food: bonus no matter how many times the volcano has gone off. Does it appear its violating this max cap?
 

lifehole

Chieftain
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
29
Heh, atleast it ain't like in civ 5 where you shoot with archers 1000-50000 miles with arrows.
 
Joined
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Location
Canberra, Australia
What I had planed but have not had chance to do and wont have chance to do for about a month was to send messages to all the human players who could see the volcano no matter who caused the event. I was about half way through that when I messed up the code big time. I may get to it before Wednesday but if not then I am or should be away for about a month being a dutiful son.
 

Crusis

Warlord
Joined
Oct 26, 2005
Messages
150
Heh, atleast it ain't like in civ 5 where you shoot with archers 1000-50000 miles with arrows.

LOL! True!

DH, don't take this as snarky criticism. I purely want to be as helpful as I can to the gameplay aspects of C2C. I certainly don't have your talent or I'd be involved doing something. But I do know gameplay. I've wasted far too much of my life doing just that.

Thunderbird, good points. Even so, however, there is currently too much game disruption by the event in my oh so humble opinion.
 

TowerWizard

Warlord
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
257
I know I basically do nothing but complain on these forums, but really, there have been nothing but complaints about the volcanoes ever since they were first implemented, and now DH openly says that they he "messed up the code big time". Why not just remove something even its creator says is broken, until it is fixed? Like with the Lawyers, they are getting fixed all the time but have not reached svn yet. Do the same with volcanoes. remove them, fix them, re-insert them.

Also, why do you need to focus the camera on the volcanoe? Is it not enough to just have a message at the top of the screen and a sound effect, much like the birth of Great People?
 

Thunderbrd

C2C War Dog
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Messages
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So its JUST about the messaging is the point I'm making and DH is fixing that and that fix is all he said he messed up (not volcanoes in general).

Jeez guys, its not that annoying!
 

TowerWizard

Warlord
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
257
No, it is not super annoying, but in relation to the effects it brings (changing a workable tile into an unworkable tile (until the volcano goes extinct), something that can happen anywhere at any time, that pollutes the environment, with a chance at destroying/killing everything around it, probably burn down forests even further away then the surrounding tiles once that mechanic gets off the ground proper, with the only positive effect being +1 food (until the volcano goes extinct) on the tiles which was just destroyed), having also to endure the camera moving to some unchartered spot (that I should not now anything about (which breaks immersion and realism)) and bringing up a pop-up I need to click away, it is not something I would label as an entirely pleasant addition to the game.
 

dusckr87

Prince
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
595
No, it is not super annoying, but in relation to the effects it brings (changing a workable tile into an unworkable tile (until the volcano goes extinct), something that can happen anywhere at any time, that pollutes the environment, with a chance at destroying/killing everything around it, probably burn down forests even further away then the surrounding tiles once that mechanic gets off the ground proper, with the only positive effect being +1 food (until the volcano goes extinct) on the tiles which was just destroyed),

Complaining about this isn't really justified. it is a "bad" event, like fires, storms, etc. Strange that nobody ever complains about the "good" events...Turn off events in the main menu (custom game) if it really bothers you.


having also to endure the camera moving to some unchartered spot (that I should not now anything about (which breaks immersion and realism)) and bringing up a pop-up I need to click away, it is not something I would label as an entirely pleasant addition to the game.

This seems to be the major complaint from most people, and as it has been said it is annoying but not really that bad (it is far better than it used to be). "Realism" is not really a factor anyway.
 

TowerWizard

Warlord
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
257
Look, Thunderbrd specifically stated it was not that annoying, and I responded, that yes, to some degree it is. I was not complaining about the event per se, just the implementation. In my mind, bad events are supposed to be annoying. It is a consequence of them being, you know, bad? And a bad event that is also, even admittedly by its creator, badly implemented? Yes, it is annoying. I will say no more on this issue, though.
 

Taxman66

King
Joined
Aug 3, 2012
Messages
872
Location
Columbia, Maryland USA
It is when it is the same volcano blowing up every 5-10 turns, destroying the tile improvements around it as fast as (if not faster) than the workers can put them back.
 

dusckr87

Prince
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
595
It is when it is the same volcano blowing up every 5-10 turns, destroying the tile improvements around it as fast as (if not faster) than the workers can put them back.

Yeah, that sucks, but then you just don't build there. Having fires in your city every 5-10 turns burning down buildings sucks too, but you learn to not let flammability get too high in your cities. You adapt.
 

Taxman66

King
Joined
Aug 3, 2012
Messages
872
Location
Columbia, Maryland USA
Not an option if there is a critical resource next to the volcano.

It's not just complaining about a 'bad' event, the erruptions happen far too often at the same 'site'.

As a side note speaking of 'bad' events, though I haven't kept a specific count, I know for a fact that the good events I've seen have been outnumbered by bad ones by a factor of x2 or x3 (and much much high ratio if I include volcano erruptions that wipe out improvements); And I'm excluding the inconsequential events (e.g. like avoid the issue by spending 10 gold).
 

Hydromancerx

C2C Modder
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
16,281
Location
California, USA
Complaining about this isn't really justified. it is a "bad" event, like fires, storms, etc. Strange that nobody ever complains about the "good" events...Turn off events in the main menu (custom game) if it really bothers you.

Not true. At one point the herd events were popping up too frequently to the point of having like 6 bison around your city. This was toned down and now is more less fixed. No one should have that many migration events around one city every time you play.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Canberra, Australia
, even admittedly by its creator, badly implemented?

That bit has never happened.

Volcanoes are events. Events can happen once per player (AI plus human) per turn. The number of possible events early on is few so volcanoes happen quite frequently.

One solution - increase the number of events early on. Rightfuture and I are looking at migrating some of the events from the "Stone Age" mod. This is going slowly at the moment. We haven't finished analysing what is there and what needs to be done to convert them if they are useful.

Volcano messages and centering are not going to the players involved in the event but to the player that causes the event. Solution change the way the messages and centering occur so that only those players affected get messages and centering. This is what I was working on and what I messed up big time.
 

Thunderbrd

C2C War Dog
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And all I was really trying to say is that I have faith that the team, particularly DH in this case, is working on it and will have it much improved as soon as possible, which is really all you can ask for no?
 

Crusis

Warlord
Joined
Oct 26, 2005
Messages
150
I'm going to side with TowerWizard on this one. It really is quite annoying. It might not annoy YOU, dusckr87, but it clearly annoys some of us. To say that our opinions on the matter aren't justified is basically just saying for us all to shut up, tell the modders how godlike they are, and that we'll just smile while volcanoes burn away our immersion in the game.

Please. We all appreciate what these guys do, but the game will only get better if people speak up and say what they want and what they like. What they don't like is pretty important too.
 

Nimek

Emperor
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
1,179
...the matter aren't justified is basically just saying for us all to shut up, tell the modders how godlike they are,...

Someone is working on it. It must not be so simple as you think to fix it.
 
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