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TheMeInTeam

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Wealth gaps are bad.
you seem to be presupposing this, rather than supporting it.

Favouring high short term global wealth holding at the expense of some centuries of very degraded global wealth value in the long term is bad.
our disagreement is at least partially in that we aren't making the same conclusions about the short and long term tradeoffs of different policies.

edit: side note about hurricanes: no evidence to support that they are more intense lately btw. that's actual fake news, in that even mainstream sites have falsely claimed it.
 

Aiken_Drumn

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edit: side note about hurricanes: no evidence to support that they are more intense lately btw. that's actual fake news, in that even mainstream sites have falsely claimed it.

NASA disagrees. Do you deny climate change?
 

Senethro

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The common thread here is that TMIT and UP presuppose that everything they have is deserved, the system that gives it to them because they are good, and that the system is good, even when it is the proceeds of Apartheid.
 

Aiken_Drumn

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The common thread here is that TMIT and UP presuppose that everything they have is deserved, the system that gives it to them because they are good, and that the system is good, even when it is the proceeds of Apartheid.

Thusly all the negatives in their life are also richly deserved? Their riches? Or does that come from elsewhere?
 
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Arwon

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no country is 100% mono-culture, but nz is a heck of a lot closer than usa
Not sure about this tbh, the US only has about 12% to 15% of its population born abroad, compared to NZ's 27%. The US is not a particularly high migration country these days.
 

Samson

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Not sure about this tbh, the US only has about 12 to 15% of its population born abroad, compared to NZ's 27%.
But the people born in New York are a completely different culture to those born in Nebraska, and both are different to those born in California.

How that is relevant is another question.
 

Arwon

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But the people born in New York are a completely different culture to those born in Nebraska, and both are different to those born in California.

How that is relevant is another question.
Depends where you're looking from tbh. I'm not sure the regional, and rural v urban variation among the native born population is particularly high on a global scale, given all parts of the US have the same major dominant language, same major religion, and vote for the same two political parties, for instance.

Along those axes it's higher variation than NZ (maybe not on language), but then on the other hand, there's less migrants so it again depends what you're looking at.
 
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Zardnaar

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Not sure about this tbh, the US only has about 12% to 15% of its population born abroad, compared to NZ's 27%. The US is not a particularly high migration country these days.

What's Aussie numbers? I assume it's closer to NZ than USA.

Auckland is about 40% foreign.
 

Uncle Paul

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assuming the unrest over equality is based in fact, in addition to being unethical doing this costs too much. you don't have enough police, enough jails, or enough productivity when you're done with it. better to stop enforcing laws unfairly, if you can. if you can't, then yes the market corrections tend to happen outside of the state's "monopoly" on violence, which increasingly looks less like monopoly. that's a bad path, for obvious reasons.
You can always hire more police and build more jails. Technology also allows more surveillance with less manpower.
Buddy, you provided the Wikipedia link. Assuming that was the source you wanted to provide, it explicitly defines it as "white". I'm sure there are primary sources referenced that validate the claim.
That's like saying Biafra was a black ethnostate. It was an Ibo ethnostate, Ibos happen to be black. It was about the Ibo ethnicity, not the black race, just like I'm about the Afrikaner ethnicity, not the white race.
Erm per Capita our immigration rate was double America's.
My condolences.
25% population growth between 2000-2022. I don't think USA took in 75 million migrants in that time frame.
What we do have is universal healthcare, welfare, and help with social housing.
Why do you take so many uitlanders in?
It's under a lot of pressure atm but we never have had ghettoes and things like that even in the great depression (unemployment rate was about half of USA then).

So we dodged the worse effects of inequality so far. It's not perfect of course.
You could have done even better if you never let them in in the first place.
Apartheid was unsustainable you can't treat the majority like crap for so long without consequences. Your system will collapse one way or another.
Yes, I have even admitted that apartheid was unsustainable.
Hmmmm yes hmmm. What is words? What are definitions?

Perhaps not the thread for recursive questions.


I wish I had more positive reasons, but the honest truth is that the present developed world is sleepwalking into a worst case scenario climate crisis and I hope that it won't take the destruction of the present concentrations of wealth and power to do something about it, but it might.

Theres your answer. My desire for a radical redistribution within society is partly out of hope that it will be functional. My hope is that a flatter society will be able to make the decision to not destroy itself, whereas the current decision making process cannot do this as those in power are willing to accept being captain of a ship where everything but their bridge has sunk beneath the waterline.

I only have the evidence of what doing nothing will do and it is increasing my tolerance of political risk.


Its the south africa thread dude. You're kind of doing it by who you're defending. That and the US is only 30 years better than SA, but keep on throwing that centuries word about.


There are plenty of states I wouldn't trust to do it. One can hope that internally hostile states can be reformed.
When you look at demographic, cultural, and political trends in the modern world, you will begin to understand why I'm not so bothered a climate crisis. By and large, the world is past the point where it's worth saving. Just being honest.
Not sure about this tbh, the US only has about 12% to 15% of its population born abroad, compared to NZ's 27%. The US is not a particularly high migration country these days.
Not sure why New Zealand lets so many in.
What's Aussie numbers? I assume it's closer to NZ than USA.

Auckland is about 40% foreign.
Yikes.
 

Arwon

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What's Aussie numbers? I assume it's closer to NZ than USA.

Auckland is about 40% foreign.

33% with roughly half having a parent born overseas. Sydney closer to half depending on where you draw the urban boundaries. Melbourne 40%. Brisbane and Canberra closer to the national figure.
 

Zardnaar

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33% with roughly half having a parent born overseas. Sydney closer to half depending on where you draw the urban boundaries. Melbourne 40%. Brisbane and Canberra closer to the national figure.

Kinda makes sense Australia has a lot going for it in global terms.
 

TheMeInTeam

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You can always hire more police and build more jails. Technology also allows more surveillance with less manpower.
no, there is reliably a point after which you can't. and the country becomes awful significantly prior to that.

Not sure about this tbh, the US only has about 12% to 15% of its population born abroad, compared to NZ's 27%. The US is not a particularly high migration country these days.
culture isn't the same thing as migration. significant % of us population does not assimilate, or rather there are enough different ones now that it's not clear into which a random new immigrant would assimilate unless we know more about the person, and even then it's a guess

every country has this to a degree, but the difference between states or even just cities within some states is stark compared to what you find in other countries that are similarly sized to said state
 

Zardnaar

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Ironically if the ANC gets much more corrupt/useless/authoritarianhe might need to make use of other countries refugee policies.
 

Arwon

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culture isn't the same thing as migration. significant % of us population does not assimilate, or rather there are enough different ones now that it's not clear into which a random new immigrant would assimilate unless we know more about the person, and even then it's a guess
This is just evidence free piffle
 

Gorbles

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That's like saying Biafra was a black ethnostate. It was an Ibo ethnostate, Ibos happen to be black. It was about the Ibo ethnicity, not the black race, just like I'm about the Afrikaner ethnicity, not the white race.
It's not like saying anything. The link you provided explicitly calls the thing you want a white ethnostate, and it calls people who claim it not to be mistaken.

You're wrong buddy, not much more to say on that.
 

Senethro

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Another commonality between TMIT and UP is the shapeless ideology that cannot describe a better future or how to get there. Everything they say is in service of themselves because, to a greater extent, they're held hostage by their own status anxiety.

The main clue to this is how they critique any reform, but feel no need to similarly critique existing systems to the same standards, and any suggestions to better embody their own values are treated as extremely abstract and hypothetical. They themselves don't see them as realistically or plausibly happening. They only conceive of change in its loss potential.

What I'm saying is they're here to only to play offense, never defense.
 

Uncle Paul

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33% with roughly half having a parent born overseas. Sydney closer to half depending on where you draw the urban boundaries. Melbourne 40%. Brisbane and Canberra closer to the national figure.
Yikes, I didn't realize it had gotten that bad already.
Kinda makes sense Australia has a lot going for it in global terms.
It won't have a lot going for it if mass migration continues.
no, there is reliably a point after which you can't. and the country becomes awful significantly prior to that.
But it's not universally awful for everyone, even if it is for the underclass.
culture isn't the same thing as migration. significant % of us population does not assimilate, or rather there are enough different ones now that it's not clear into which a random new immigrant would assimilate unless we know more about the person, and even then it's a guess

every country has this to a degree, but the difference between states or even just cities within some states is stark compared to what you find in other countries that are similarly sized to said state
True.
With what? That Cherokee language and culture is valuable to the Cherokee in the same way Boer language and culture are valuable to you?
I agree that it is valuable to them, but it isn't valuable to me.
Ironically if the ANC gets much more corrupt/useless/authoritarianhe might need to make use of other countries refugee policies.
Look up Blood River for an example of what actually happened when Boers had our backs against the wall and had no choice but to fight.
It's not like saying anything. The link you provided explicitly calls the thing you want a white ethnostate, and it calls people who claim it not to be mistaken.

You're wrong buddy, not much more to say on that.
An ethnostate for Afrikaners, not just everyone who has a White skin colour.
He wants to be more particular/restrictive than that.
Yes.
Then he should call it something else, instead of throwing Wiki links at people that correct what he's trying to argue.
It's not my fault you can't read Afrikaans.
 
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