South African Wars Mod

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Creation & Customization' started by Sagitario, Feb 26, 2010.

  1. The Capo

    The Capo godless Heathen

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    In my mind apartheid, slavery, and the holocaust are basically the same thing. They were both awful things, and are extremely regrettable. There were elements of slavery in the holocaust, and elements of ethnic cleansing in slavery, both dehumanized people. What shocks me is that you insist apartheid was not discrimination and that you say it was a good thing. I don't understand how you can hold this belief, it is completely ridiculous.
     
  2. Sagitario

    Sagitario Extremist Zionist Salsero

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    Slavery was a walk in the park compared to the Holocaust. Actually I'm NOT mixed. I'm Argentine and all 4 of my grandparents were Sephardic Jews that escaped to Latin America.

    Tell me WHENEVER YOU WANT WE WILL COMPARE WHAT BLACK "STATESMEN/SCIENTISTS" have given the world COMPARED TO WHAT JEWS HAVE GIVEN THE WORLD!! Tell me WHENEVER you want to have the debate :)
     
  3. Sagitario

    Sagitario Extremist Zionist Salsero

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    TONTO!!!! Apartheid started in the 1950s, so you're now claiming that is when WWI took place?
     
  4. Sagitario

    Sagitario Extremist Zionist Salsero

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    slavery = africans selling their own criminals and prisoners of war to arab to european slave traders. Slavery was a common practice in africa for centuries before transatlantic slavery.

    Holocaust = the systematic extermination of the jewish people. Undeniable the ethnic group that can be given credit for the most advances in human history.
     
  5. The Capo

    The Capo godless Heathen

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    I didn't say it was exactly the same, but they are basically the same thing. Thousands upon thousands of Africans died on the slave ships, many of them were killed for trying to escape. I am not denying the holocaust was awful, I am simply saying both of them are dehumanizing and racist and caused indescribable horrors on people simply because of how they were born. Whether or not Jews contributed to human advancement is a moot point entirely, even if they contributed nothing it doesn't change how awful their treatment was. Whether or not other Africans sold the slaves is also irrelevant, it doesn't make it acceptable simply because they are from the same continent, nor does it lessen the awful treatment that the slaves experienced. I don't really know what any of this has to do with the holocaust though, why was that even brought up to begin with?

    It doesn't matter, the main point is apartheid was bad, and it was definitely racist. If you deny that there must be something wrong with you.
     
  6. techathon

    techathon Member

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    This may be a fact, but eventually, states like the Dahomeys arose where they traded slaves for guns to get more slaves for more guns to get more slaves...

    ~ 16,898,000 africans were exported via the slave trade. I am almost 100% positive there were more people then "africans selling their own criminals and prisoners of war" from the system that was in africa for centuries before transatlantic slavery" True, but that was the excuse used in the 1600s-1700s to make it "Right" to mistreat these people.
    Sources: Paul Rawley The Transatlantic Slave Trade page 428. This was the source my collage level history book used. I also used this textbook.

    There is quite a diffrence here, but I would like to say that there were over 5 million Non-Jewish people Hitler killed that WERN'T Jewish. Be careful on things like that or you run the risk of offending people.
    http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/fivmil.htm READ IT!!!
     
  7. Sagitario

    Sagitario Extremist Zionist Salsero

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    Jews were specifically targeted for being Jews. Gypsies and Gays as well but NEVER into the millions. The 5 million others were for the most part NOT targeted for their ancestry as we were.
     
  8. techathon

    techathon Member

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    5 million is no number to sneeze at... The poles were basically shifted out on basis of weather they looked ayrean or not, the rest were sent to labor camps. The Educated poles were targeted, too.
    CAPITALS vs. sources, I wonder what will win....
     
  9. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    And now the Poles arrive...

    Now I know you can't read. From your own misquote of my post it's quite clear you're speaking nonsense. (I never use the word Tonto.)

    If I understand you correctly the fate of the Jews during WW II is worse than hundreds of years of slave trade and slavery. In itself already a very strange comparison, but frankly I don't think you are the person to make this mod.

    (Not that there is much of a mod, because so far all you seem to do is talk and rant.)
     
  10. Sagitario

    Sagitario Extremist Zionist Salsero

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    Well I was talking about how the extermination of Jews was planned where as the extermination of Black people was NEVER planned.
     
  11. Sagitario

    Sagitario Extremist Zionist Salsero

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    I was calling you a tonto. The fact you REFUSE to admit the PLANNED extermination of an entire peace is NOT worse then one group selling its own slaves, criminals, and prisoners of war in a society ALREADY practicing slavery shows what a digusting person you are.
     
  12. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Super Moderator Supporter

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    *gna* i did not.
    If i did, then i also compared holocaust and slavery with unemployment.

    What i wanted to say: You're completly naive, if you believe, that only criminals were sold.
    It's in the same way naive to believe, that only guilty people are sitting into prison.

    er...and what?

    I guess, Hitler would not have cared...
     
  13. The Capo

    The Capo godless Heathen

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    First of all, ethnic cleansing is horrible in all of its forms. I don't think anybody is denying that, basically you mentioned the holocaust and some of us said that slavery has the same or similar elements to it and you ran with that for your argument. It is a stupid argument. And you are clearly not very well educated in the history you pretend to know.

    The simple fact that you just said in the above quote "one group selling its own slaves" is an idiotic statement. Just because one group of people is from Africa, and black, doesn't mean they are the same as another group of people simply because they are from Africa and black. The fact that you seem to think this shows how little you know, and honestly is a pretty bad outlook for someone to have when they intend on making an historically-based mod about Africa. My main point was that slavery in Africa and abroad, by Europeans in this period did take on racial overtones. Thousands (and potentially millions if you look at the wars waged simply to capture slaves) of Africans lost their lives senslessly and horribly. This is the same thing that happened during the holocaust, granted, there were different circumstances. But as horrible as the holocaust was, your insistance that slavery (i.e. being a slave) was "better" is ridiculously stupid. You can't compare the two in this way, it just simply can't be done appropriately. They are both awful things, they are both deplorable. Nobody, not a single person, who has disagreed with you here has ever said that the holocaust wasn't bad or tried to downplay it. But as most idiots do, your first reaction is to try and find something you deem "worse," then take that argument and run with it. Even though it has nothing to do with your equally stupid contention that apartheid was a POSITIVE thing, or that any black South African would prefer to live under apartheid.
     
  14. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    I'm sorry, but I'm done here: you don't discuss anything I've brought up, bring up irrelevant "facts" and call people names. This is not a mod thread, it's a rant thread.
     
  15. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Emperor

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    Agreed. AFAIK slavery WAS based on ethnic differences, one African ethnic group enslaving people from another African ethnic group. On a second note, Sagitario, even if the holocaust was worse than slavery, that doesn't make slavery good, only less worse than one of the most terrible things in modern history, and still quite terrible in itself.
     
  16. techathon

    techathon Member

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    Ok look, this is a MOD thread, what are you currently working on? Do you have screenshots? The reason Im asking this right now is b/c Im not going to make a map for a project I am 99.9% sure it isn't going to get finished. This thread is so off topic, the ad on the top of the screen says "Go to Jewish Camp" Yet this thread is about Isreal. Give me some proof that you ARE doing SOMETHING or else I won't finish the map.
     
  17. The Capo

    The Capo godless Heathen

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    LOL, that's hilarious.
     
  18. Sagitario

    Sagitario Extremist Zionist Salsero

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    If its going to be a problem then don't worry about it. I've been messsing arond with the XML and maps anyway.
     
  19. Sagitario

    Sagitario Extremist Zionist Salsero

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    You basically just said that slavery was an equal tragedy to the Holocaust. People who ALREADY practiced slavery sold their own criminals, slaves, and prisoners of wars to Arabs who then sold them to Europeans. The ONLY thing that changed was who using the slaves NOTHING else. If the cycle of slavery had stayed in Sub-Saharan Africa you wouldn't even complain about it. The ONLY reason you try to say it is this huge bad thing is because Semitic and European people were involved.
     
  20. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Super Moderator Supporter

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    Read other people's posts:


    I would complain about it, for sure.
    And it has nothing to do with who has done it.
     

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