Southeast Asian Newcomers

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Who should there be? For Civ7
Burma
Civ ability: Valley of jewels (??)
Underlying themes: Renaissance and Industiral
Leader:
- Bayingnaung
- Hsibushyin (or someone else who fought BOTH Ayutthaya (and successor state), AND Qing China)


Malaysia(??)
Civ ability: The Yellow Tigers
Leader: (Founding Father, I donno who, but not Mahadir because he's still alive and active)

Laos
Civ ability: Seven Sons of Khun Bulom (Faster settlers training)--This name of ability is based on a legend regarding to the founding of Seven Kingdoms located in what's now Thailand and Laos, allegedy tied with the founding of Ayutthaya. Vientianne, Luang Prabang, Nan, and Nakhorn Phanom.

I'm not really keen on their respecstive UU much.

 

[Murloc777]

Tibet. I want really it.

 

[Zaarin]

Tibet. I want really it.

Tibet is South Asia, not Southeast Asia.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Burma most likely. Also Philippines could be interesting for another naval SEA civ.

That being said I wouldn't mind if we got back all the 4 old ones: Khmer, Indonesia, Siam and Vietnam.

 

[Xandinho]

Burma would be nice, but I'm not as interested as I'm with the others. For me they can return with Indonesia, Khmer and Vietnam and if there is a fourth, it should be Siam.
However, they should add Shwedagon Pagoda as a World Wonder that represents Burma.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

^ Newcomers refers to civs that never has been included in this game as playable. VN was the latest addition as a civ in DLC though this nation appeared as a CS in Civ5 (Hanoi)
Three countries i've chosen never appeared in any CIV games as playables. Laos actually never exists ANYWHERE in this game series before while Burma has its Golden Pagoda as a wonder (Civ4) but I chose it as new comer because i've read a book that 'Sukhothai was NOT the first Siamese Empire' and the contents included that 'legends of Seven Princes' whom were sons of the same King (of city of Thaen(?) now Dien Bien Phu) and later their father granted them settlers and 'send them out to found new cities'. One of them founded Ayutthaya, the other created Vientienne.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Maybe you could get more of a variety of votes if you add in the Philippines? Not sure how many people would vote for Singapore, but it's another interesting idea.

Also instead of what appears to be modern-day Malaysia it would probably be better if you put either the Srivijaya Empire or the Malacca Sultanate.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

^ Ain't Srivijaya also Indonesia? even if F'xis presented them as Majapahit Empire (successor)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

^ Ain't Srivijaya also Indonesia? even if F'xis presented them as Majapahit Empire (successor)

I guess so. Though I was thinking of them as an ethnic Malay state, as opposed to Majapahit which was an ethnic Javanese state. If not you really only have the Malacca Sultanate as a viable option for "Malaysia."

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

^
1. How strong Mallaca Sultanate is
2. Name of Pre-Spain state that rules Phillipines plase. and does it worths a candidate?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

1. How strong Mallaca Sultanate is

I don't know much about it other than it helped the spread of Islam throughout Indonesia and was a financial hub for the region. It lasted about 110 years until the Portuguese came.

2. Name of Pre-Spain state that rules Phillipines plase. and does it worths a candidate?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure there are many different groups of people and weren't unified until Spain came. That being said I think if we went for a pre-Spain leader you could go with Lapulapu, who is regarded as the first Philippines hero by defeating Magellan and his crew, similar to Lautaro for the Mapuche.

I've also seen support for José Rizal, who never lead but was a major figure in Philippine independence from Spain.

 

[Birch617]

^
1. How strong Mallaca Sultanate is
2. Name of Pre-Spain state that rules Phillipines plase. and does it worths a candidate?

For a Pre-Hispanic Phillipine you could go for Tondo kingdom based Tagalog civ with Kalangitan as their leader.
personallly i wouldn't mind pre-hispanic phillipines and a phillipine civ on the same game imo

 

[BuchiTaton]

For me the regular SEA should be Siam (Indochina*+Modern) and Majapahit (Indonesia*+Medieval). Plus Burma and Phillipine as CIV7 newcomers.

 

[Krajzen]

Regarding Indonesia, I am under the impression that everybody in those kinds of communities are overestimating the power and glory of Majapahit over all other Indonesian civilizations. You guys are aware that
1) Majapahit wasn't really big expansionist empire and most probably Majapahit didn't directly control anything beyond central and east Java? Like I'm serious, all its other 'provinces' were more like vague tributary/vassal/trade monopoly treaties, with a huge controversies among historians if that control was minimal or very minimal - so it doesn't really differ in that matter that much from other Javanese and Sumatran powers.
2) Majapahit didn't build all those temples of Java (great Borobudur and Prambanan included), they have been built by a completely different kingdom of Medang centuries before
3) Majapahit was just one of several Javanese states that together repulsed Mongols (it's complicated btw because it was just starting existing in the same time)
4) Majapahit wasn't more or less advanced in most areas than later Islamic dynasties of Java, which largely retained its culture

Like, there is no reason why Indonesia should be always Majapahit, as if it's some enormous qualitative difference from other empires of the region, then can all rotate and mix. Sometimes we can have Majapahit Indonesia, sometimes we can have Srivijaya, sometimes we can have Medang (the actual builders of Borobudur; they'd also be much more fresh take on the country as they were not - very - trading agricultural builder kingdom), sometimes we can have combatative Aceh Sultanate, sometimes we can have Islamic Mataram sultanate of Java, and sometimes we can have modern Indonesia, and sometimes we can do the same thing we do with other Eurasian civilizations and mix different aspects of that civ from different time periods.


To some degree Philippine suggestions on those kinds of forums have similars problems, with people religiously repeating 'Kingdom of Tongo' as if it was an actual large territorial entity, while it was most probably a very tiny polity more akin to the "city state", but which didn't entirely reach the state of urbanization so it's more a "confederation of proto - cities" akin to Gauls. I have no idea how I'd actually design Filipino civilization honestly, because the area before Spanish conquest has been an extremely culturaly diverse archipelago, with little in common between countless ethnic groups, and little state organization.