Hammurbabble
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2008
- Messages
- 239
Remember that we aren't given any of the theological teachings and values for any of the Civ4 religions and they make no difference in-game. All that matters is that they are a belief system and value system that unite the people around a central authority, keep them content and supporting the system, and allow the various religious civics to operate. Stalin's cult of personality could do all those things, even if strictly speaking it wasn't what a religious person would call a "religion," and so could Hitler's romanticized German nationalism.
Interesting stuff about the Nazis' environmentalism. Except that Hitler was a vegetarian, I didn't know any of that. I still think Mercantilism fits their historical reality better than Environmentalism, though, in terms of the in-game mechanics.
Why slavery for the Nazis? Because a lot of their production, especially war production, employed slave labor from concentration camps and POWs. That's why not all the Jews shipped to Auschwitz were immediately put to death, those that could work they put to work instead.
What changes took place in the Soviet Union after the war, and especially after Stalin died, that's a good question. I would disagree that their real government type was ever Representation. It's true that the Supreme Soviet was a representative body, but the voting was rigged to keep it locked down by the Communist Party, and anyway the real authority lay with the Politburo. Of the government civics in game, I think Police State still fits it best. It wasn't nearly as harsh and brutal after Stalin died and it ceased to be a dictatorship in favor of an oligarchy, but it was still a government that ruled with secret police and denial of basic political rights. Unfortunately, the changes that took place, while substantial, don't fit anything in Civ4.
Perhaps one could argue that the Soviet Union was moving towards Representation under Gorbachev, but since the Soviet Union fell then, we'll never know.
Stalin may have been anti-nationalist in theory, but during World War II that went out the window.
After he died, though, I think we could argue that the Soviet Union dropped Nationhood and adopted Bureaucracy instead. Also, they switched out of Slavery, but to what? Considering the hereditary privilege of Communist Party membership, I would say Caste System. (Remember, the Caste System proper has only existed in India, and so what's called that in game is a looser term.)
So here's what I'm going to suggest:
Soviet Union from Stalin's death until Gorbachev's reforms:
Police State
Bureaucracy
Caste System
State Property
Organized Religion
And under Gorbachev, it became (or was becoming):
Representation
Bureaucracy
Caste System
State Property
Free Religion
Interesting stuff about the Nazis' environmentalism. Except that Hitler was a vegetarian, I didn't know any of that. I still think Mercantilism fits their historical reality better than Environmentalism, though, in terms of the in-game mechanics.
Why slavery for the Nazis? Because a lot of their production, especially war production, employed slave labor from concentration camps and POWs. That's why not all the Jews shipped to Auschwitz were immediately put to death, those that could work they put to work instead.
What changes took place in the Soviet Union after the war, and especially after Stalin died, that's a good question. I would disagree that their real government type was ever Representation. It's true that the Supreme Soviet was a representative body, but the voting was rigged to keep it locked down by the Communist Party, and anyway the real authority lay with the Politburo. Of the government civics in game, I think Police State still fits it best. It wasn't nearly as harsh and brutal after Stalin died and it ceased to be a dictatorship in favor of an oligarchy, but it was still a government that ruled with secret police and denial of basic political rights. Unfortunately, the changes that took place, while substantial, don't fit anything in Civ4.
Perhaps one could argue that the Soviet Union was moving towards Representation under Gorbachev, but since the Soviet Union fell then, we'll never know.
Stalin may have been anti-nationalist in theory, but during World War II that went out the window.
After he died, though, I think we could argue that the Soviet Union dropped Nationhood and adopted Bureaucracy instead. Also, they switched out of Slavery, but to what? Considering the hereditary privilege of Communist Party membership, I would say Caste System. (Remember, the Caste System proper has only existed in India, and so what's called that in game is a looser term.)
So here's what I'm going to suggest:
Soviet Union from Stalin's death until Gorbachev's reforms:
Police State
Bureaucracy
Caste System
State Property
Organized Religion
And under Gorbachev, it became (or was becoming):
Representation
Bureaucracy
Caste System
State Property
Free Religion