Space/non-Earth climate maps and longitude/latitude restrictions

raxo2222 · Mar 19, 2018

We have animals spawning at certain longitude/latitude.
Animal/plant resources are restricted to certain latitudes when map is being generated.
There are 52 buildings, that can be (auto)built in certain minimum/maximum latitudes.
Most of these buildings are animal/space related. Few of them are water related - getting salt or having cold climate.

Spoiler List of all buildings with latitude requirements :

It doesn't make sense for map resources and buildings to be restricted by latitude - they can be restricted by terrain if applicable.

Definition of latitude and longitude completely breaks down on vertical space map, especially if there are 2 earth maps like in Vertical Solar spacemap.
Map can be generated with cold climates - for example with tundra at latitude of 30 degrees or hot climate - jungle at 60 degrees latitude.
That is with these climates I should get mammoth at 30 latitude or bananas at 60 latitude.

Case of Space Elevator is complicated - it should be built on equator, but equator may be where is distant cosmos on space map....

Moved modmod removing latitude/longitude restrictions on animal spawning, resource generation and building placement to here.

Thunderbrd · Mar 19, 2018

Perhaps we need to have a game option on when playing these maps, and with that option on, the buildings you're pointing at get re-definitions so that it's based more on terrain in vicinity. Either that or yes, we base on terrains in vicinity, provided we can do that with OR capability. (Arctic Coast OR Ice, OR Tundra OR Tiaga etc...)

They were going to build a Space Elevator in Seattle. I don't think that a prereq should be equatorial.

raxo2222 · Mar 19, 2018

Thunderbrd said:
Perhaps we need to have a game option on when playing these maps, and with that option on, the buildings you're pointing at get re-definitions so that it's based more on terrain in vicinity. Either that or yes, we base on terrains in vicinity, provided we can do that with OR capability. (Arctic Coast OR Ice, OR Tundra OR Tiaga etc...)

They were going to build a Space Elevator in Seattle. I don't think that a prereq should be equatorial.

What about maps with very cold/hot climates?
On very hot map I should get bananas resource or salt evaporation building at 90 latitude.
On very cold map I should get walrus resource or igloo building at 0 latitude.

Thunderbrd · Mar 19, 2018

raxo2222 said:
What about maps with very cold/hot climates?

All the more appropriate since most of the lattitude based prereqs are just checking assumed climates.

BTW, I just realized that a module that adjusts these buildings would probably be even more appropriate in this case. @Dancing Hoskuld could help to explain how to set that up properly.

raxo2222 · Mar 19, 2018

Map animal/plant resources are restricted to certain latitudes too - they assume planet doesn't have 20 degrees higher/lower temperature than earth when generating mostly hot/cold terrains.

Same can be said with animal spawns latitude restrictions.

Thunderbrd · Mar 19, 2018

Each map should definitely have its own spawn definitions, that has been stated many times already. Map makers place their own resources though, right?

raxo2222 · Mar 19, 2018

Thunderbrd said:
Each map should definitely have its own spawn definitions, that has been stated many times already. Map makers place their own resources though, right?

DH thought maps already have this capacity but I don't think it was actually implemented.
Mapmakers can place their resource anywhere.

But map generator won't put banana at 90 latitude even though whole map is hot jungle.
Banana can be put in +-30 latutude not more by map generator.

Thunderbrd · Mar 19, 2018

raxo2222 said:
DH thought maps already have this capacity but I don't think it was actually implemented.

No, you have to create your own spawn file and replace the original with it when you run the map. I don't even think spawn infos are modular but they might be. I can check on that.

raxo2222 said:
But map generator won't put banana at 90 latitude even though whole map is hot jungle.
Banana can be put in +-30 latutude not more by map generator.

More of a generic 'issue' (and not a high priority one) than something specific to the space maps though. It is something worth considering when we get to developing 'biome' based spawns someday.

raxo2222 · Mar 19, 2018

Thunderbrd said:
No, you have to create your own spawn file and replace the original with it when you run the map. I don't even think spawn infos are modular but they might be. I can check on that.

Hmm this is what I did with my spacemap - I made my own spawn info file, that you replace default one with it.
It removes all latitude/longitude spawn restrictions.

Thunderbrd said:
More of a generic 'issue' (and not a high priority one) than something specific to the space maps though. It is something worth considering when we get to developing 'biome' based spawns someday.

This thread is both for space maps and nonstandard climate maps, can be generated or handmade.
Can't Terrain and Terrain feature be utilized together instead of latitude for all map resources and buildings?

Thunderbrd · Mar 19, 2018

Resources are placed by mapscript processing so you would have to address that in each map script.

Dancing Hoskuld · Mar 19, 2018

raxo2222 said:
Can't Terrain and Terrain feature be utilized together instead of latitude for all map resources and buildings?

Latitude is a limiter on resource spawns. It stops resources being placed too far from the equator. There is no longitude limiter like we have with animals. Limiting by terrain and terrain feature is not sufficient especially for animals.

If we are going to make a limiter for resources, especially plants, we should look at it also being used for animal spawns. This is not easy. We would need "regions" which may be the same as mapscript regions but may not be. Then we would need to check what the climatic biomes of this region are and assign it to one of these "regions" is the same regions as the Cultural regions making sure that there is enough room tor the players to spawn in their correct region.... my brain has just stopped, I am going back to bed... hope this cold is only a 24 hr thing....

raxo2222 · Mar 20, 2018

Dancing Hoskuld said:
Latitude is a limiter on resource spawns. It stops resources being placed too far from the equator. There is no longitude limiter like we have with animals. Limiting by terrain and terrain feature is not sufficient especially for animals.

I know there is no longitude limiter for animals and buildings.
Well this limiter stops making sense on space maps and maps with weird climates (cold equator and hot poles or whole world having mild climate)
Also latitude is limiter for buildings too.

That is latitude/longtitude limitation makes sene only on Earth climate maps, that doesn't have space.
If map deviates from Earth climate, then all latitude limiters make less sense.
On vertical space map all latitude limiters make no sense for example on Vertical Solar map that is included with mod.
On horizontal space map longitude limiters doesn't make sense (animal spawning).
For space map you would need to adjust max/min latitude and longitude so they cover whole earth.

Horizontal - calculated, so left Earth edge has -180 longitude, right edge of Earth has 180 longitude.
Vertical - calculated, so bottom of Earth has -90 latitude, and top of Earth has +90 latitude.
Absolute values for latitude and longitude would go well into hundreds depending on how thin Earth is.
Mapmaker would have to calculate them.
My space map has Earth from X=0 (-180, also min longitude) to X=45 (180).
My map is 280 tiles long.
That is 45 tiles represent 360 longitude degrees.
280/45 = 6.2222.
-180+360*6.2222 = 2060 - that would be max longitude on my space map.
There is no latitude scaling for horizontal space maps

Vertical Solar has Earth from Y = 20 (-90 latitude) to Y = 87 (90 latitude).
This map is 200 tiles high.
That is 67 tiles represent 180 latitude degrees.
180/67 = 2.6866.
-90-20*2.6866 = -144 - min latitude for map.
90+(200-87)*2.6866 = 394 - max latitude for map.
Other Earth would have nonsensical latitudes/longitudes though.
It appears you can't go beyond +-90 latitude meaning its impossible to scale space maps.
That is min/max latitude is clamped to -90/+90

I guess gameoption, that tells game to simply ignore all latitude/longitude restrictions for map resource placement, building restriction, and animal spawning (only animals are restriced by longitude) would be good way to support nonstandard climates (ice wasteland or Duna desert) and spacemaps (Vertical Solar that is included with mod, and my spacemap with non standard-ish climate).

That is even Multimaps won't defend latitude restrictions from weird/artifacial climate.

That is current system works in one case, that you can't stray too far and I want system or at least game option, that would allow for all possibilities.

Faustmouse · Mar 20, 2018

You can basically build a Space elevator whereever you want, als long as you have a counterpart on the other hemisphere. You can even have 10 in the northern and only 1 in the southern hemisphere.

I thought it might be interesting to limit lunar colonies to the poles at first, and unlock the equatorial ones to when you've set up infrastructure at the poles and built a pipe system to give them access to water as well.

raxo2222 · Mar 20, 2018

Faustmouse said:
You can basically build a Space elevator whereever you want, als long as you have a counterpart on the other hemisphere. You can even have 10 in the northern and only 1 in the southern hemisphere.

I thought it might be interesting to limit lunar colonies to the poles at first, and unlock the equatorial ones to when you've set up infrastructure at the poles and built a pipe system to give them access to water as well.

Space Elevator is world wonder though

As for lunar colonies they would need lunar pole terrain or any lunar terrain with route on it to be founded.

Snofru1 · Mar 22, 2018

Ice Rinks also cannot be built on the Vertical Solar Map.

raxo2222 · Mar 22, 2018

Snofru1 said:
Ice Rinks also cannot be built on the Vertical Solar Map.

It would be surprising if you could build any latitude limited building (list is on first post) on Vertical Solar map.
Essentially latitudes are screwed on that spacemap and can't be rescaled.
Same with longitudes on my space map.

Also latitude limits make as much sense as 1+1=3 on all hot or cold climate map.

Snofru1 · Mar 22, 2018

Ah, sorry, I haven´t "unspoilerd" the list. Thanks for providing it, also the ModMod!

raxo2222 · Mar 26, 2018

Updated it to SVN10015

Dancing Hoskuld · Mar 26, 2018

FYI Resource placement is also limited by latitude on random maps.. Just something you will need to contend with if doing random maps.

raxo2222 · Mar 26, 2018

Dancing Hoskuld said:
FYI Resource placement is also limited by latitude on random maps.. Just something you will need to contend with if doing random maps.

I know.
Even with multimaps you still would need latitude restriction removed if playing maps with weird climates.
Resources are already limited to terrain/feature combinations.

Space/non-Earth climate maps and longitude/latitude restrictions

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