Space Shuttle Columbia

Enemy Ace

Death comes ripping.
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I just found out that NASA saw the video of debris hitting the wing, while Columbia was still in orbiting Earth. Engineers wanted to have satellites redirected to photograph the bottom of the shuttle where the damage was likely. It was denied. It was the opinion of management that even if there were damage that there was nothing they could do. They did NOTHING!

In my opinion, they let those people die. They could have found a way to either get these people to the international space station or have an emergency launch of another shuttle carrying repair equipment or something. I mean c'mon, this is f*cking NASA.

They KNEW there was something wrong and they did NOTHING!

I am just so pissed off, right now. I'm hoping someone can tell me how stupid I am and why I am wrong so I don't have to write a nasty letter to NASA. Anyone?!
 
If i recall corectly, O'keef is not a scientist, he is a damn administrator and Bush nominate him to cut NASA expense. So another great move by Bush, those religious right winger have no place into science, they think money first and war second.

It was a management failure not a scientific one, that's very clear in my mind.
 
Originally posted by Tassadar
If i recall corectly, O'keef is not a scientist, he is a damn administrator and Bush nominate him to cut NASA expense. So another great move by Bush, those religious right winger have no place into science, they think money first and war second.

It was a management failure not a scientific one, that's very clear in my mind.

:rolleyes:

So it's Bush's fault for appointing the guy? It's not NASA's?
 
Nasa has been going down hill a long time. Cant blame only the republicans or my pal Bush (sarcasm) for the Challenger disaster. Nasa isnt a scientific organization, hasnt been one for a long time. Its a top heavy, beaurocratic nightmare whos main role is to deliver public relations events with an ever shrinking budget.

edit: I mean Columbia! Its hard to keep all these Nasa failures straight. If theres anymore of them I'll have to hire a secretary to help out.
Turner:goodjob:
 
Originally posted by thestonesfan


:rolleyes:

So it's Bush's fault for appointing the guy? It's not NASA's?

Yes exactly, O'Keefe was put in charge by Bush, i am pretty sure that his creationism diploma in a methodist church, help him a lots to get the job:rolleyes:
 
AFAIK, there was no mating collar for ISS, there were no outside-suits and there was no time to get them off. What should they have done?
 
Those are smart people up there. Im sure a way could have been figured out for ISS to pass them some extra oxygen cannisters so they would have time on board to wait for a rescue. At the very least they could have informed the crew so they could decide whether they wanted to suffocate in orbit or burn up on re-entry.
 
Originally posted by carlosMM
AFAIK, there was no mating collar for ISS, there were no outside-suits and there was no time to get them off. What should they have done?

IIRC, a NASA report concluded that NASA had the ability to launch another space shuttle into orbit.
 
They could have done nothing. It was simply not possible to dock with the SS (not enough fuel) and not possible to send a rescue mission in less than a month.

The only way they could have been saved would have been if they ejected over Africa when they lanuched in the first place.
 
Welcome back G-Man. :)
 
thanx aphex twin for clearing that up! I didn't remember it was the fuel that limited them.
 
They could have done nothing.

You can't say that. Even NASA didn't say that.
Do you know what kind of solutions could have come up after hours of restless thinking by a team of leading scientists, united to solve the crisis? No.
 
Originally posted by IceBlaZe
You can't say that. Even NASA didn't say that.
Do you know what kind of solutions could have come up after hours of restless thinking by a team of leading scientists, united to solve the crisis? No.
I completely agree with you on this one.
If NASA would have come out and acknowledge that they had a problem, people from all over the world could have tried to arrange something to save these people. Instead NASA did nothing and just sat back and waited for them to burn up upon reentry.
Maybe it would have taken a few geniuses to tackle the problems but in that case NASA should have brought these geniuses together and think about the options.
 
Here's a link from MSNBC:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/874274.asp

[...]
SCENARIO ONE: A SPACEWALK
Take, for example, the idea of making a spacewalk to inspect the area of suspected damage. NASA officials said there was no proven method of doing that, since the two spacesuits on board were only there for repairs inside the payload bay. The crew had no jet backpacks to fly around the shuttle, and no robot arm to position themselves in sight of the bottom.

But the flight controllers I’ve talked with after the disaster had no doubts they could have thrown together a workable plan in a day or two, if asked. They would have first completely checked it out in ground simulation facilities, such as the giant water tank where floating spacesuited astronauts mimic zero gravity, and then told the crew what to do.
The trick would be to break some safety rules, but not too many. One astronaut would unhook his or her safety line from the shuttle, and the shuttle would fire its thrusters to gently move about 200 feet away. It then would roll 180 degrees, turning its belly to the free-floating astronaut. Sure, he or she would probably be slowly turning end over end in space. But he or she would be able to eyeball the area of suspected damage and take digital still images and zoomed video. Then the shuttle would slowly roll another 180 degrees and move back to retrieve the astronaut, like a giant catcher’s mitt enveloping a pop foul.
The flight controllers I talked to were horrified by the Columbia disaster, but frustrated as well.
“We never got a chance to do what we do best,” one spacewalk expert lamented.
They had notebooks full of tricks, and minds trained to generate new ones as needed. They just didn’t have time, this time, to even try.
But would such an inspection have revealed anything? Whether through an astronaut’s eyes or the lens of a small self-propelled space spy camera, through a spy satellite or ground-based surveillance telescope, any insight would only have been as good as the actual view. But what was there to see?
It appears that many of tiles came off the shuttle as it flew over California, indicating that perhaps few, if any, had originally been knocked completely free during launch. Many others may have been damaged but remained in place, which would deceive any visual inspection.

SPACE STATION OUT OF REACH
Flying over to the International Space Station, either to get inspected by its crew, or to seek shelter there, was never an option. Such a flight was physically impossible because the orbits of the station and the shuttle were in different directions through space. Where their paths crossed, they were at angles too sharp for the shuttle’s limited rocket fuel to “turn the corner” and match orbits.
This situation wasn’t the arbitrary result of blind choice. The station is in a northerly orbit that allows access from Russia’s rocket base in Kazakhstan — and that access is now the station’s only lifeline. The 16-day Columbia mission was on a flight path designed to let it launch and land during daylight at Cape Canaveral, a powerful safety concern. The different requirements demanded incompatible orbits.

SCENARIO TWO: FLYING DIFFERENTLY
Was there a gentler way to fly Columbia back into the atmosphere? Cain was asked last week by reporters if there were some alternate flying tricks that might have relieved, at least in part, the thermal stress on the left wing.
For example, if the left wing’s thermal protection was known to be compromised, could the shuttle enter the atmosphere “crabbed” a little to the side? It would scorch the heck out of the right wing that tilted into the fire, but would it have made a difference for the injured left wing?
“It’s theoretically possible,” Cain said, but added that his teammates didn’t think it would have worked because such a move would have only a small effect on the heat load.
“There are lots of things you can do,” he said, “but they don’t necessarily solve your problem.”
Worse, Cain said, “You just lead to potentially other problems.”
In this case, the “good” wing might have scorched through its own tiles, damaged its steering jets or suffered some other unanticipated damage. The balance of an unknown pile of new risks vs. an uncertain current risk would have been a decision nightmare.

SCENARIO THREE: RESCUE SHUTTLE
Another suggested scenario was rescue by another shuttle. If Columbia could have stayed in space long enough, and kept its crew alive long enough, perhaps the next scheduled shuttle mission could have reached it.
This sort of space rescue is the stuff of which science fiction movies are made — and, in fact, one was, the 1969 film “Marooned.” And it’s the sort of “impossible” contingency that the Mission Control team (and their “bolt-turner” buddies on the launch crews at Cape Canaveral) could really sink their teeth into.


Maybe the next shuttle, scheduled for a flight in March, could have been accelerated to launch in less than two weeks. Major shortcuts and added risks would have been required. Fueling would have been more hazardous and equipment less thoroughly checked. Work shifts would have been long and would overlap, threatening procedural oversights.
Meanwhile, once it was determined that Columbia was badly — even mortally — wounded and could not safely return to Earth, it could be sacrificed to save its crew. Major systems could be powered down to conserve electricity (they would be ruined by the cold of space, but no matter).
Keeping the crew alive that long wouldn’t have been easy. The “long pole” would have been the chemicals to absorb the astronauts’ exhaled carbon dioxide. This is the gas that kills people in closed spaces, such as children trapped in old refrigerators. Carbon dioxide accumulates in your blood and turns acidic, killing your brain cells.
There is only a finite supply of CO2-absorbing canisters on any shuttle mission. Even if old ones were dug out of the trash and CO2 levels were allowed to get so high as to be painful, a cold-blooded calculus could have told NASA that there wouldn’t be enough air cleaning supplies for all seven astronauts to wait for the earliest-possible shuttle rescue. That’s when “short-straw time” arrives, and we move back into science fiction.

NO TIME
But on the day that Columbia was lost, there was no time to invent a new procedure or to try something utterly innovative and amazing that had been dreamed up in anticipation of such a bad day. The continuing agony of the Mission Control team, and of all space workers, is to ask what indicators they overlooked or misinterpreted, if any. Did they miss an opportunity to “what-if” their way around the crisis, to try something, anything, to break the chain of disaster? Or — and it is a meager consolation — was this just the kind of bad day that even Mission Control was powerless to forestall?


Author:
James Oberg, space analyst for NBC News, spent 22 years at the Johnson Space Center as a Mission Control operator and an orbital designer.

There was really nothing to be done.
 
The last link actually says that something could have been done. If NASA only had tried to check out whether or not damage had been done a recovery operation in space could have been set up.
 
Read a little better. Best case, they could have aranged a mission to recover the asphyxiated bodies.
 
Originally posted by Aphex_Twin
Read a little better. Best case, they could have aranged a mission to recover the asphyxiated bodies.

Where did I misread?


In all the post-catastrophe speculations about possible rescue missions, there always remained an unbridgeable chasm between how long the crew members could stretch their life support systems, and how long it would take to get a rescue shuttle mission to reach them. The cruel calculus of this spaceflight crisis came to an unhappy conclusion: The astronauts would die, probably of carbon dioxide poisoning, before a rescue mission involving a second shuttle could be mounted.
But this is not necessarily inevitable, it turns out. Amateurs and retired space workers have been able to develop at least one miracle maneuver to bridge that gap. Given a few days and the full-powered brainstorms from Mission Control and throughout the space industry, the rescue plan — or ideas even better — could almost certainly have quickly been made workable.
This gimmick would be to launch an emergency supply payload into orbit within a week of the realization of the crisis, aboard an expendable launch vehicle. Several such packages would be prepared in parallel, because mission success of any one of them might have been 50-50 or even less. But with enough attempts, one of them would likely have worked.

(snip)

None of these steps is individually impossible, and in fact most have been performed piecemeal in the past. Everything needed to do it this way — or in any of a dozen better ways that the space teams could have devised — was already on hand.
The key missing ingredient was not ingenuity and determination; it was insight into the seriousness of the original damage.
The requisite “situational awareness” wasn’t there when it should have been. And that, in reality, is the actual missing link that prevented saving the crew.
 
I've read experienced former NASA members and astronauts saying something could have been done, in the form of a rescue mission.
Whichever opinion you take, nothing is certain.
Only one thing we know: NASA simply DISREGARDED the option of rescue, or even the option of telling the crew their situation (since when is it NASA's role to play god?).

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/c...E-CREW-COULD-HAVE-BEEN-RESCUED-name_page.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/09/columbia/main553121.shtml
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/9/2/124711.shtml
 
I think that that bothers me the most.
They just disregarded the incident and let everything happen, without even trying as hard as they could to understand the seriousness of the situation.
 
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