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Space Victory Dilemma

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Gargoyle, Nov 21, 2005.

  1. Gargoyle

    Gargoyle Warlord

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    I won a Space Victory twice now out of 4 games. First time it was very close. Second time I was way ahead and no other civ even started building any SS parts. I play on Noble and probably will for some time. I don't find Noble to easy, just SV.

    Now here is my dilemma. If you don't warmonger, it seems Space Victory is much easier than any other victory. I can't find a reason to try for the others. But I don't want to turn SV off because I've heard the AI doesn't change its priorities properly (still does all the SV techs as if they need them for a SV). That would give me an unfair advantage.

    Any suggestions on what I can do?
     
  2. vmxa

    vmxa Deity Supporter

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    Domination before anyone can get to space. If you want to spice up Noble, try raging barbs.

    If that is not doing anything, play Always War. If all of that is still too easy, please move up.
     
  3. Gargoyle

    Gargoyle Warlord

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    Fair suggestions, thank you. But you are missing my point. It is my opinion that Space Victory is just to easy, for me AND for the AI. Yes, if I warmonger domination or conquest victories are my primary goal. But even then, if I get held up, and have to settle in short of those victories, I'm just going to pump up for the space victory and get it.

    What I'm looking for is a way to make SV as difficult and in line with the other types of victories. And again, turning it off gives me too much of an advantage as the AI plays as if it is still on.
     
  4. Zhahz

    Zhahz PC Gamer

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    I agree that space race is too easy. I've yet to see that AI try for any other victory type and it's easier for me to win by space race than any other victory condition. I do well with domination but it takes considerably more effort, often involves more risk taking, and takes far longer.
     
  5. laserdog

    laserdog Chieftain

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    I have the very same issue. Space Race is just too easy for the AIs, and it just makes some of the other victories (culture especially) problematic.

    One solution might be to boost the production cost of the SS components by 50% or even a full doubling of their cost.

    I think another thing that may help, possibly in addition, is to increase some of the component requirements.

    Perhaps 8 casing instead of 5. 4 thrusters instead of 3. And maybe two life support systems (one for backup?).

    Ideally even adding a new component, ala "Solar Panels" or something. Make it more of a multi-city task than it currently is.

    All this stuff is pretty doable via XML. Assets/XML/GameInfo/CIV4ProjectInfo.xml

    (although I've had some problems getting it to register the new cost properly, but I'm probably just doing something dumb).

    Although hopefully some of these balance issues will be addressed in the new patch as well...
     
  6. Marcus_Aurelius

    Marcus_Aurelius The True Emporer

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    When I started trying to win cultural victory I turned space victory off so that I could get through a game without losing to the SV. It was nice to not compete with the space ships, but suddenly there was a lot of competition for culture. One city did beat me to 50,000, and I have never seen that before in a typical game, the AI doesn't normaly seem to care about cultural victory. So anyway, it seems that in my experience the AI will adjust for the victory conditions.
     
  7. Shillen

    Shillen Deity

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    I think they need to bring back the required resources for spaceship building. That's what prevented the AI from always going for space race in civ3. If they had no alumunim then they can't build any spaceship parts. They either had to acquire aluminum or go for a different victory condition. They could couple this with making aluminum more rare than it is currently. This double production with x resource isn't a barrier at all really. You can still build the parts quite easily if you don't have the appropriate resource.
     
  8. Aldin

    Aldin Chieftain

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    This seems as good a thread for this question as any... if you're going for the Space Race Victory anyway, why would you build the Space Elevator? My experience is that I always have several completed components and more on the way before I can even start the blasted thing. Heck, even if you started building parts concurrently with the beginning of construction on the SE, it just seems like it's so expensive that by the time it's completed you'll never save the number of hammers on the remaining parts that you invested in building the SE. I almost lost a game to the AI yesterday where Peter started building the SS while I was busy beating up Louis XIV and by the time I switched back to a peace economy I was seriously behind. If he hadn't paused to build the SE (which completed when he was a mere three components away) I doubt I'd have caught him.

    ~Aldin
     
  9. Shillen

    Shillen Deity

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    I agree. I'll only build the space elevator if I happen to have 2 great engineers handy. Which is pretty much never.
     
  10. Marcus_Aurelius

    Marcus_Aurelius The True Emporer

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    The last game that I played was a space race victory. I had many cities, maybe 16 so there were plenty of places to to build from. Once I had built Rocketry I went to the tech for the space elevator. You have to go down that tech line anyway, so why not build it if you can? I think that the benefits of aluminum and the space elevator for the more epensive later SS parts contributed a lot to the win. Winning or loosing can come down to one turn, so every bit helps, if you can afford it.
     
  11. anton_z1

    anton_z1 Warlord

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    Space victory depends on the map type. If you play on huge, i doubt you would win domination, because the units are TOO slow. It would take you forever just to move from place to place( Dont say me railroads. You can not use them in the ennemy borders.). Crossing water is sometimes pretty impossible.(Louis Alone HAD builded something like 40 ships !!!! on a standart map).

    However if you play on standart map, things become complicated beacause the damn ship parts are so expensive. I prefer Building bombers and tanks. Onnce I have build up my military, i take in average 1 city per turn.

    I doubt you will ever win a space race on tiny :D.

    I think they need to adjust the production required to build spaceship parts. Increase it proportionnaly to the size of the map.
     
  12. Bunion

    Bunion Chieftain

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    I really wish they would do something with space race victory, I finally beat the computer on Prince but I have also lost horribly on that same difficulty level. A lot has to do with set up, if a computer civ gets a good set up by themselves on a continent I think you are doomed. During one game the computer finished Apollo project in 1907 and game was over before 1940. I have has several close ones where I lost the race with 5-10 turns, but this last time I won by a good margin.

    The problem is you really don't have any time to build a lot of the other stuff as you are researching techs so fast at the end you have to concentrate on ship parts otherwise you will lose.

    One odd ball thing is that I have never seen the computer build the manhatten project yet. They seem to avoid nukes at least up through Prince.

    Space elevator can come in handy if you have a lot of cities or a lot of gold, I quick built it at a cost of around 3000 gold. But if you are low in gold you are probably better off just building the parts.
     
  13. Jazz_Newton

    Jazz_Newton Warlord

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    The space elevator is nice. While I was building it (the SE),I let Gandhi get halfway through his spaceship and I focused on tightening up my infrastructure and defence. Then i switched my entire production over to the spaceship - I think I managed to build the whole thing in 15 turns.

    I think that's actually "case-in-point" on why it's too easy though.
     
  14. Enigma

    Enigma Chieftain

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    How to build the space elevator quickly:

    1) Tech up to Future Tech. (or lower if you're so inclined...)
    2) Kill the research slider, dump all commerce into making gold.
    3) Switch to Universal Sufferage
    4) Wait a few turns
    5) Gold rush the elevator

    Simple, effective and quick enough to build before a large portion of the spaceship is already constructed...

    Won me a couple of close space races on Noble... :)
     
  15. ÆnigmÆffect

    ÆnigmÆffect Warlord

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    Nice name, Enigma ;)

    Anyway, I'm definitely finding that even builder types (which I somewhat consider myself) still need to wage wars, especially for people having hard times with SV.

    What I mean is that the stronger your overall empire, the faster you get techs. Wars waged (for land grab/resources) in the mid-game can greatly increase the amount of population and output of your empire, thus giving you a good tech lead over the AI later on when gunning for SV (as well as crippling them thus slowing them down). And later on, if everyone's going hard at SV, then having an army/spies to kill cities/cripple improvements can turn the tide.
     
  16. Rhymes

    Rhymes Drive 4 25 is back

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    <
    Engineers cant rush the Space elevator, it appears they have made it a great project...
     
  17. Rhymes

    Rhymes Drive 4 25 is back

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I dont think you can gold rush the SE either......
     
  18. Panth

    Panth Prince

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    The problem I have with Space race so far is that it entirely consumes the modrn era. I have yet to ever build or use ANY of the really cool looking modern units because I have to try to beat somebody to space. If it was just one civ working on parts, it would seem feasible to build up military and take them out, but when over half the rival civs are building parts, there's no way I can take them all out before somebody gets it done. One minute there's riflemen running around, a few turns later, infantry is available, and before more than a few are even built, somebody is completing SS casings.

    I've turned space & time victories off on my most recent game because I'd like to actually use some of the modern military.
     
  19. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    I agree, probab;y the best way top deal with the Space Race Victory is to have it be a whole seperate Era's worth of techs (Or at least requiring a number of Techs that have almost no usefulness other than the Space Race).. So during the Modern Era, the player can either choose

    Max Research for Space Race Win (and taking the Space Race Branch of the tree)
    OR
    Max Production for Military Win (and Taking the Military branch of the Tree)
    OR
    Max Food for UN Win (Future Techs)
     
  20. Rhymes

    Rhymes Drive 4 25 is back

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    Solution, make the SS engine buildable with Futur tech 8, SS cassing with futur tech 4, etc.
     

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