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Spaceship Bonus: Why no free settler option?

Rakshasa72

Warlord
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
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149
Speaking as someone who quite often moves their settler on turn one. I still think that even Retrograde Thrusters does not offer enough options to satisfy my OCD about placing my first city. So I'm wondering why they didn't put an option for a "Classic" Free Settler start? I know that it's probably not the option everyone would pick but, it would fill a familiar niche for those that just must have the "Perfect" city location.
 

KrikkitTwo

Immortal
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Apr 3, 2004
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12,418
Speaking as someone who quite often moves their settler on turn one. I still think that even Retrograde Thrusters does not offer enough options to satisfy my OCD about placing my first city. So I'm wondering why they didn't put an option for a "Classic" Free Settler start? I know that it's probably not the option everyone would pick but, it would fill a familiar niche for those that just must have the "Perfect" city location.
As long as you are ok with waiting the 18 turns until you outpost becomes a city, that should be fine.

But honestly if you are not fine with 19 different options, then place your capital so your Second city will be good.
 

awesome

Meme Lord
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maybe they allow you to pick your exact landing spot out of a few tiles? or do we know for sure that this isn't a thing? i haven't bothered to watch any let's plays.
 

Rakshasa72

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Jun 9, 2012
Messages
149
maybe they allow you to pick your exact landing spot out of a few tiles? or do we know for sure that this isn't a thing? i haven't bothered to watch any let's plays.

They do however it's not really that many. I guess there is always the option to reseed the map.
 

Gamewizard

Emperor
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Because of the wide range of improvements there are and all the bonuses the improvements receive from teching, all of the tiles are potentially really good. Starting near a river is once again very strong because of the extra energy (not sure why they brought this feature back), and mountains, canyons, and craters are a waste of tiles.
 

m15a

Emperor
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I'm not sure if it's the case, but maybe they wanted to avoid the situation where you get killed by aliens before you get your first city? Also, exploring for the perfect spot for your capital beyond the retrograde thrusters range might involve a lot of turns. I think most people avoid going that far out unless it's a very special strategy (like OCC or something) because if you don't get something good, you're too far behind to make it up.

I think it's interesting that there was that article where the Civ V developers debated and tested capital settlement strategies (moving vs. settling at the starting spot) a few months ago. I think the conclusion was that if you don't find a strong spot to settle after spending a turn or more to move, then you are at an extreme disadvantage. Maybe they considered that when they ensured that the player in BE would always settle on the first turn (but having the retrograde thruster option that gives a little more choice at a cost).
 

gunnergoz

Cat Herder
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Speaking as someone who quite often moves their settler on turn one. I still think that even Retrograde Thrusters does not offer enough options to satisfy my OCD about placing my first city. So I'm wondering why they didn't put an option for a "Classic" Free Settler start? I know that it's probably not the option everyone would pick but, it would fill a familiar niche for those that just must have the "Perfect" city location.

"Perfect" city locations abound in BE in a way you are probably unused to, because of the density of resources and workable tiles on the maps we have seen. It is a different game and you will find entirely new outlets for your OCD in BE. :)
 

rastak

Emperor
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Oct 18, 2005
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I could not care less about perfect starting locations. The whole fun of the game for me is to start out with my single city and figure out how to make the best of it. I'll never in my life understand why people restart until they like the starting spot.

Do these guys insist on re-dealing over and over if they don't like their starting hand in cards?
 

Traejun

Warlord
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Nov 29, 2012
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I could not care less about perfect starting locations. The whole fun of the game for me is to start out with my single city and figure out how to make the best of it. I'll never in my life understand why people restart until they like the starting spot.

Do these guys insist on re-dealing over and over if they don't like their starting hand in cards?

If you are trying for Deity wins, then a bad start location can essentially torpedo your game from turn 1. Yes, I said it. You lost, you're just too stupid to realize it. THAT is why people restart for better starts.

Emperor difficulty? Who cares... start me on a vast tundra. Immortal? Challenging. Deity? You better get a good 1st city location.
 

gunnergoz

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Well, that's why there is no one correct way to play a game as complex as Civ...not if it is designed correctly, anyway. I think this will be true with BE too. We'll bring in our baggage and our biases from previous Civ games and in a few weeks we will have our answers - did we guess correctly? Did what worked before, work here? And if not, why?

If the old strategies work in BE, then it may as well be a reskinned Civ V.
 

Tomice

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I could not care less about perfect starting locations. The whole fun of the game for me is to start out with my single city and figure out how to make the best of it. I'll never in my life understand why people restart until they like the starting spot.

I do sometimes because I'd like to play a certain type of game. If I'm totally in mood for a naval-heavy game but start landlocked, I might restart.
 

Louis XXIV

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Pick the thing that starts with Pioneering and just make your second city the ideal city.
 

Seek

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@Rakshasa72 - don't know if you saw the live stream last week that was hosted by MadDjinn, but retrograde thrusters got heavily buffed over what we have been seeing in all the other playthroughs (which is an older build). Hopefully that will satisfy your OCD. :)
 

joncnunn

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So I'm wondering why they didn't put an option for a "Classic" Free Settler start? I know that it's probably not the option everyone would pick but, it would fill a familiar niche for those that just must have the "Perfect" city location.

Actually because it WOULD be the option that every human would ALWAYS take (baring self imposed challenge / someone playing the last game on difficulty level X before going up to X + 1)

Having a base plus a settler would be like playing Spain and seeing a natural wonder in Civ V.

In addition remember that in BE the human is going to be the first to land by several turns. It might very well make even the highest difficulty level a joke if the human has two cities near turn 0 before the first AI even lands.
 

MasterDinadan

Warlord
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
235
Actually because it WOULD be the option that every human would ALWAYS take (baring self imposed challenge / someone playing the last game on difficulty level X before going up to X + 1)

Having a base plus a settler would be like playing Spain and seeing a natural wonder in Civ V.

In addition remember that in BE the human is going to be the first to land by several turns. It might very well make even the highest difficulty level a joke if the human has two cities near turn 0 before the first AI even lands.

I think the suggestion was starting with a Settler instead of starting with a city, but this would put the player at a massive disadvantage compared to Thrusters. Yeah, you could settle outside the area allowed by thrusters, but there's no way you are going to be able to explore out far enough to make a good choice without getting eaten by aliens.

I agree that starting with a City and a settler would be way too good.
 

lordrune

Prince
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Jan 1, 2008
Messages
591
Maybe one or more of the devs were frustrated by players losing their first settler to barbarians in a multiplayer game, and decided to implement a design change so it can't happen in BE?
 

Lord Shadow

General
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I think the suggestion was starting with a Settler instead of starting with a city, but this would put the player at a massive disadvantage compared to Thrusters. Yeah, you could settle outside the area allowed by thrusters, but there's no way you are going to be able to explore out far enough to make a good choice without getting eaten by aliens.
There's also the fact cities founded by Colonists in Beyond Earth have to spend a bunch of turns as an outpost before properly growing to settlement status.

The rule cannot be ignored, and in the case of a first city, it'd mean a crushing disadvantage regardless of alien aggression.
 

gunnergoz

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I see a wish being hoisted by some to walk BE back into being a reskinned Civ V that they can play in familiar ways and using proven strategies. I understand why they may wish that, but if the developers cave and change too many BE game elements back, it will cease being BE and may as well be called a Civ V reskin.

Some changes are there for a good, logical reason (i.e. the spaceship landing) and to alter them would defy common sense and with it, the immersion factor.

Can't have your cake (a new game) and eat it too (just like the old game.)
 

KrikkitTwo

Immortal
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Apr 3, 2004
Messages
12,418
I think the chance to go nomad for a few turns would be a good one. Or at least the ability to move your Headquarters once you have a second city.

Moving your HQ (although not the 'original capital' designation for Conquest Victory...perhaps rename it to controling all landing zones) would be good. There is less that's important about it now.
1. The output of the HQ building
2. Road/railroad connection
3. Place to collect expedition yields

That seems to be it.
Perhaps a '10 turns to relocate' for the HQ?
 
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